From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding packages to ELPA Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:26:46 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <87sijqxzr2.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <877g11c8wh.fsf@gmx.us> <83fvfo15z7.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411133237 6173 80.91.229.3 (19 Sep 2014 13:27:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:27:17 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 19 15:27:10 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUyDN-0004K2-Q0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:27:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58253 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUyDN-0005j9-BP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:27:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57333) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUyDE-0005j1-8K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:27:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUyD6-0004Jg-OH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:27:00 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:32127) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUyD6-0004JN-KS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:26:52 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArQGAIDvNVNFpZEG/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSsA9gRcXdIImAQEEVjMLNBIUGA2IMNIZF48BFoQiBJQelHuBaoNMIQ X-IPAS-Result: ArQGAIDvNVNFpZEG/2dsb2JhbABZgwaDSsA9gRcXdIImAQEEVjMLNBIUGA2IMNIZF48BFoQiBJQelHuBaoNMIQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,753,1389762000"; d="scan'208";a="90281625" Original-Received: from 69-165-145-6.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.145.6]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 19 Sep 2014 09:26:46 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A9A7A642C6; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:26:46 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Sam Steingold's message of "Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:31:12 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174549 Archived-At: >>>> For popular packages to be distributed outside of Emacs and ELPA >>>> has some bad consequences: >>>> * We can't change them when we change some part of Emacs that they use. >>>> That makes it hard for us to change interfaces. >>>> * We don't have copyright assignments in them, so we can't move the code >>>> into Emacs. >>>> * They may say things that work against the GNU Project in other ways, >>>> such as by recommending nonfree programs, or by recommending rivals of >>>> GNU packages. >>>> I think therefore that we do more to move the popular packages into >>>> ELPA or Emacs. Right, these are pretty much my motivations, indeed. [ Except for the "say things against GNU" part since moving them to GNU ELPA is generally not an option anyway; or at least, not before the problem itself is solved . ] Another is to improve users's experience by having more packages available right away without having to customize their `package-archives' first. Also, I think it's important to include packages in GNU ELPA *early*. For some reason, many people think of GNU ELPA as a kind of collection of packages that have been blessed by the powers after due considerations and checks, which inevitably is linked to the idea that these are mature packages. So I regularly see answers like "yes, I'd be honored to put this in GNU ELPA when it's finished, but it's still being developed" (and this is typically for packages that have seen a couple releases announced on gnu.emacs.sources). Of course, the package is never "finished" and if it ever gets to be mature enough for the author to maybe think he should submit it to GNU ELPA, now we have to go track down all the contributors for paperwork. So, it's important to be very proactive and to try and get packages into GNU ELPA very early on, when the copyright status is much more simple, so that the copyright assignments can be collected progressively as the contributions get accepted. Stefan