From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 370d403: Explain in the manual how to make `cursor-intangible' work Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:33:20 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20211114021443.12484.87085@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20211114021444.BD421209C6@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <8735ny7m7e.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1bi4ncs.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl2m4m54.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7522"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 14 23:34:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mmO4a-0001m5-Eq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 23:34:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55662 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmO4Z-0008On-7T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:34:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45778) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmO42-0007is-GX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:33:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:27519) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmO3x-0005VR-1v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:33:29 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id CA5BE805E4; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:33:23 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D31EC80043; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1636929201; bh=ISdNU9cmKKD4dtccTLna9rO6IIsKz8/is+Ib1cCdM9s=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=G+un6Rexq1g4u5DS/P3/DwjXP9x4C+jzr1rTzplAiunxn616Tf8To2yCcudLKpZLS zNLQRb3U8bYZJlQIEG466HmfS8E7moRluEbOGWkiWOtPznsxjyiKmtz3/7fwNm6PKV k7ymk+ME09kRx78AdPsMsm8c4nkzcqAsbeLgpum47vPJawDso3W0wjcAe2MmJgGfYi XONIkmuEfySSRKe27H2aAU0phxu44BXreS36dKdqruscPumxJbcuQ4wAuksPiNY8V3 TFxTl17KcGZLK56+/ztNUvvD2bWf5XH8M2ZUJdVsmXyYWRiK7eKoi839sHAntniXWy zPAuBC6LTKPWg== Original-Received: from ceviche (unknown [45.72.128.33]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8F4D1208A4; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87bl2m4m54.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:39:35 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:279449 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-11-14 19:39:35] wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >> Note that in your example of 5 X where you want the cursor to be able to >> jump from "just before XXXXX" to "just after XXXXX", your 5 X are not >> "intangible" since you can jump from before to after (you might call >> them "atomic" maybe, but "intangible" doesn't seem quite right). > > I don't think I was the one who called this `cursor-intangible', was it? > People use it to make the cursor skip in fun ways, but `intangible' is > an odd name for it. If you read my description carefully, you'll see that the text marked with `cursor-intangible` is indeed intangible. It's only when you want it to be "atomic" that you need to do something funny (like place the `cursor-intangible` on all-but-one char). So I think "intangible" is not a bad choice (tho, indeed, it's a largely accidental/historical name inherited from the deprecated `intangible` property). > Yes there is. See bug#51095 for somebody who's understandably confused > about what it all means. Agreed. But I think your code example just makes it seem like the current behavior is just wrong, whereas the problem is that it implements something a bit different from what the OP wanted. So I think we should better explain our meaning of "intangible" and then explain how it might relate to a notion of "atomicity" (and how to get that when you want it). Stefan