From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:00 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="121580"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Adam Porter , Eli Zaretskii , Jonas Bernoulli , Kyle Meyer , Emacs developers To: Philippe Vaucher Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 15:33:21 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTmq1-000VVu-7N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:33:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52054 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTmq0-0000Jg-Ap for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:33:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37940) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTmos-00082W-Ar for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTmop-0006qL-E0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:21088) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTmon-0006c5-30; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:05 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8F85B4506CC; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id B87134506C4; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:01 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1588167121; bh=IJjcp+ZUNycJ0s6o9nmUCA39N+L2RuLIbPsNzl2s8yc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Ao8v6Mj3s+TEEKB7I5dt9uDQm9tgM5lw8pxF0kaG4ALZi2Mf0dlg1xbvPyUkE8+Sk CrUBnMynMQviA4w4wMZ83TIq0sRykiNwMVajJsUG2L4zTDY/UlshqiDwM9Kw2KUPMf CqoDLhxU2wgBhuD0TDqHUopZp9fM6yZaYDs33HcQ4Q2gvw2FW+rsFHspJfeL6wVj/e +62Z4EwgD30ztSPDRW2z3ctCQkzZPkpxE67PqTTBNPNHJE73iKGy1KjPKF+/okmJ7x X/iC4RdoSQTctt5VbPN5xjnyvpduti2gygi9lAQDckiHs6Ox7SkL/eL3fmO01SFm/t i6FeZuZtSjmZw== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.3.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 55861120790; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:32:01 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Philippe Vaucher's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:50:08 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/29 08:38:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 132.204.25.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248130 Archived-At: FWIW, I completely agree with this. Emacs's own "core" library should follow the "prefix" convention. The resulting "structuring" of the names would help discoverability This was a major motivation for the `seq` and `map` packages, and maybe we should keep doing that with more things (e.g. add a `list` package where all the list functions get a new name using the `list` prefix, or add a `process` package were all the process related primitives are given a "process-"prefix, ...). Stefan Philippe Vaucher [2020-04-29 11:50:08] wrote: >> >> > Overall I think it's a shame that the Emacs api wasn't designed with >> discoverability/consistency in mind >> >> Would you mind elaborate on this deficiency? I don't think I quite >> understand the complaint. > > > It's hard to really criticize because Emacs was designed ages ago. > > My point is simply this one: when I look at > https://github.com/magnars/dash.el, https://github.com/NicolasPetton/seq.el > or https://github.com/magnars/s.el I can immediately understand how the > library works and how to achieve things. I can also easily use `C-h f` to > find about the function I want. > > In Emacs, parts of it are designed following the same principle, but a lot > of it isn't: > > - > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Association-Lists.html > sometimes > assoc, alist-get, assq, copy-alist. How am I supposed to use `C-h f alist > TAB` to discover the function I want? I can't, I have to go to that webpage > and read it all. > - > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/List-Elements.html > sometimes > named logically (nth, remove, append), sometimes named after implementation > detail (car, cdr), and no grouping at all so I can't `C-h f list TAB` > > Kind regards, > Philippe