From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:24:59 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <874kknp1lq.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7crozt.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2fcq7ox.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5120"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 25 23:26:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFP5k-0001EV-8h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:26:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35502 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFP5j-00032l-9o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:26:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49276) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFP4F-0001wk-8a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:25:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:16585) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFP4D-00065g-0U; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:25:06 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 75A7310022F; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:25:03 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id B010510021B; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:25:01 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1614291901; bh=CmQSNk8j+YO32faqlBzwSJBP1eP0wSF5TmNyi5g98Vs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=L3TZOpzsI1Lc4tqQVtySQb06Xy1dZy+ZKaHkUaq2NBrKnDyXLzftmBnQarXAAh7bN arR0PDowaLBubqbquNWd6o7iFIXctQIaANwz/2Rjm0S4QNtz9zBp6DOdK3HSsBFfXx 2zwTt9kStFbdTlqtRxJGEx2vGhXDnDs1PmjlrmzMLsc7JvMPclz1EnnUQ3Z3DQHinD +UL0AEGdJOZeLBmTYtJ/NNoY0PmxaGtLSwUqRzpzhMG1HY8l7Tu3nEPIvf+wJOWyRW 7VLLaDllPn24Tgza18RnVcyr7hExloRoM5dUkpDPas+A0s/O/zaFm+2L1XAUbgPsn0 AomaJKNT5HLrg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.41.47]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6616C1204F1; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:25:01 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83y2fcq7ox.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 25 Feb 2021 21:16:30 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265652 Archived-At: >> > That makes little sense to me. Other applications that show tool bars >> > don't make them appear and disappear, only change as appropriate for >> > the context. >> Which applications are you thinking of here, that would be comparable to >> Emacs (i.e. are part music-player, part text editor, part hex editor, part >> IRC client, ...)? > I don't see how this is relevant. The tool bar is part of the GUI, > which functions are shown there is immaterial. It's relevant in the fact that some of those applications may come with a toolbar while others don't, so a single application that provides access too all those facilities (like Emacs) may want to sometimes show a toolbar and sometimes not. >> I think the solution is to have toolbars inside the window's text, >> rather than attached to the frame. > Is this practical? Windows can be very narrow, and change dimensions > much more frequently in Emacs than frames. Tool bars don't live well > with frequent changes in dimensions. > > If someone wants to turn tool bar off, let them do that. We don't > need to turn the Emacs appearance upside down just because of some > fashion: we already support that fashion. I'm suggesting to *add* "in-buffer" toolbars (hopefully as a pure-ELisp feature). Stefan