From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: macOS metal rendering engine in mac port Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 15:06:43 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83k0ni6pje.fsf@gnu.org> <83eedq6mvm.fsf@gnu.org> <83zgwd6gk3.fsf@gnu.org> <83bl8t5vu6.fsf@gnu.org> <837djh5tca.fsf@gnu.org> <4bb3fc5e-5aad-c888-8dfe-d51115cdd61a@yandex.ru> <835yz15rv2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16736"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , alan@idiocy.org, aaronjensen@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 29 21:07:26 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ln4Iv-00048l-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 29 May 2021 21:07:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ln4It-0002De-7F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 29 May 2021 15:07:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41942) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ln4IL-0001Xe-AJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 May 2021 15:06:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:41224) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ln4IJ-0004Mb-EV; Sat, 29 May 2021 15:06:48 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 2AA458066C; Sat, 29 May 2021 15:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BD47B8040B; Sat, 29 May 2021 15:06:44 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1622315204; bh=UnnT9z8JdtgLQgWu/WTHWdiTk++3kJhS5wMeUyOOCW4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=fK80sP9PnboSaAAuSvkn81uGjawwCykxcABQhCIAF6vPlptmIiOV3spyJ/3mmcJUE irsGu87TOtWv5boiwxW0tyT3drpMoPi0vpRf0sQPf5KLdQ2KLNkNP6vCozKfG0zNKX B3RSBpvq03TkwTr4hQR8l+lk/vaI+9b8HvaAODBeqlat/3ZKOusoooRXxZIxhy5lei nTrkMUzVnTCdA5oh22nvrNtyCu93qL5XXUkQmban11WqW/qx99hzVT/FczHUTMwm/L HtYeoVBXmQwMErW6VDX93rlC5fpEiWQ37ApMM3cO+uw1Cl9gQJC73zPOoLh1hQJnfg LgUb3hwcJPRLw== Original-Received: from alfajor (69-196-163-239.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.163.239]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A187120AFA; Sat, 29 May 2021 15:06:44 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <835yz15rv2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 29 May 2021 21:15:13 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:270093 Archived-At: > bidirectional display and compared it with my subjective notion of > "delay": anything below 100ms was barely tangible, anything below 50ms > was perceived as "instantaneous". The "rule of thumb" that I internalized over the years in my model of the world is that a "key press to display" of ~100ms is perceived by most people as "almost but not quite instantaneous" and only once you get below 50ms is it really perceived as instantaneous by most people. Take it with a large grain of salt, tho because I don't know where I got this from, really, and I'm not particularly interested in this subject (my "Emacs built with -Og and all debugging assertions, plus extra ones I added over the years" running on my rather old machines often has delays significantly higher than that; I have a fairly high tolerance for those things ;-) Stefan