From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 3fd2b00a4b 2/2: ; * Makefile.in: Add "make bootstrap configure=default" as a first choice. Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:46:39 -0400 Message-ID: References: <166357331345.19427.12446846086384744693@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20220919074155.2E6D7C00872@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <87bkrbzttm.fsf@gnus.org> <87wn9zyetq.fsf@gnus.org> <874jx3wvkj.fsf@gnus.org> <878rmfv915.fsf@gnus.org> <875yhjo7cm.fsf@yahoo.com> <87illjtszs.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20912"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Po Lu , Stefan Kangas , Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 19 15:49:20 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oaH9C-0005Gx-Od for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 15:49:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49194 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaH9B-0003vC-NG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:49:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56836) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaH6l-0002MP-14 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:46:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:47329) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaH6h-00032b-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:46:44 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id CF188100134; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 82A8A10009E; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:46:40 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1663595200; bh=v4IAdH/s3nJtTyJN25R1L9731f709UTalcQZMzdrWSQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=or6QGZfLrJQQUSRwS/ZS9qkMhg5jeWRy/FUQObxslLJpuGoUJJZceBdSfvjWPCbpv 7r/cek8/v2nyQ7h7IQDCWQ9HlQ+I8eVt83WmV8pOihlSP8gP+mSV8RTN1G+bGxwJIQ YDckZZSE084aFEgOj1+J4d9Q583FeuLGb33Kp7QE3pfQhSqrlTdlR0KS+OYwpkD+Zq ewfQyd63l3vSS0Rzw1YjYJGVUTHoQTmWrBY6KdQZAi+Zfwz+f19I3gfofj31UFaOSh 6KlSLLdBLTD5srdcM5lx3LzJ5kB3M2pFzgp1SN4OA6FBnbaCqVBuCCQ78xzwckpZlC JWVHzqAt1UxEg== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [157.52.9.190]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47140120500; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:46:40 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87illjtszs.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 19 Sep 2022 15:04:55 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295700 Archived-At: > But why use the name "bootstrap" for something like that? > "Bootstrap" implies that it's built from the ground up. When compiling C files, with a pre-installed C compiler, you're not bootstrapping anything. Bootstrap comes into the picture when you need to build something with the something you're building, and you thus need to take extra steps to break the circular dependency (e.g. the use of `ldefs-boot.el`, or the use of an ELisp interpreter to run the not-yet-compiled code). Without such circular dependency, Make rules can often express the real dependencies precisely enough that you don't need a special Make target to rebuild from scratch. Stefan