From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: 16 Jul 2006 14:44:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153075536 32620 80.91.229.2 (16 Jul 2006 18:45:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:45:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 16 20:45:34 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2BcP-0002vL-7c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:45:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2BcO-0001qB-EA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:45:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Bbo-0001dF-Qt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:44:52 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Bbn-0001cb-HH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:44:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Bbn-0001cX-8V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:44:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [67.59.132.6] (helo=mail.agora-net.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1G2BeI-0000li-8T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:47:26 -0400 Original-Received: from ttn by mail.agora-net.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1G2Bbm-0006Bc-Fz; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:44:50 -0400 Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 26 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.4 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57115 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: > 4. The reaction to my post from 3 people who don't use a mouse was all > about *them*, not about the target tutorial community. It was all > about their own anti-mousing, and ~zero about the ideas in my post for > improving the tutorial. IOW, their own anti-mouse button got pushed > somehow, and any real debate on the ideas I raised was drowned. i am not anti-mouse for myself bereft of empathy for the newbie (although i realize that such feeling can never be accurately transmitted via email). IME, taking a mouse-is-irrelevant approach in a tutorial is like "tough love"; i have successfully coached people on info (and emacs) usage w/ the preface "leave the mouse alone for now -- you might need it later but probably less than you'd think". maybe i was just lucky. > You missed the point - it's about *what Info is about*, and it's not > about `n', `p', `u', and `d'. It's about finding information. The > easiest and quickest way we can bring newbies to the real information > is what we should aim for. Teaching `n' etc. up front is a wasteful > distraction from the real goal. everything is wasteful distraction. @xref{life}, @ref{entropy}. thi