From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs setup assistants Date: 19 May 2004 16:49:28 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <4n8yfofnan.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1085000962 21097 80.91.224.253 (19 May 2004 21:09:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:09:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed May 19 23:09:08 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQYJI-000670-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:09:08 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQYJI-0000kp-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:09:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQYIw-0003Br-Lb for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:08:46 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BQYIE-0003BO-Ia for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:08:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BQYHg-000350-SA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:08:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [207.245.84.69] (helo=colo.agora-net.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1BQY0M-0007pM-7i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 16:49:34 -0400 Original-Received: from ttn by colo.agora-net.com with local (Exim 3.34 #1) id 1BQY0G-0002iJ-00; Wed, 19 May 2004 16:49:28 -0400 Original-To: Ted Zlatanov In-Reply-To: Ted Zlatanov's message of "Wed, 19 May 2004 11:29:20 -0400" Original-Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:23733 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23733 Ted Zlatanov writes: For the writer, Texinfo is well-supported by Emacs already, and it is easy to write and parse visually (unlike XML, which was also proposed). the most well-supported machinery would be straight elisp (which is also easy to write and parse visually, for some). i think if i were to write a setup assistant, i would find the markup approach cumbersome (as opposed to the assistant-library-API approach), because it requires understanding the implicit API anyway; using markup w/o this understanding is a false economy. additionally, the markup approach introduces markup-validation, improper-markup-handling, markup-debugging, and the ever-present (meta-)documentation requirements. it becomes its own hive of complexity, requiring assistance from the necessarily small set of human experts (since the scheme is only newly hatched), as opposed to the relatively huge number of programmers who can read/write elisp already roaming the net. the even larger number of programmers who can "read/write" xml is not relevant if they don't know elisp (intersection trumps union, here). lastly, the the assistant-library-API approach would be more easily composable than the markup approach (a natural side-effect of using the extensible editor's extension language -- go figure). composability is important for the slack it brings, and other niceties appreciated by lazy programmers. ok, that's the entirety of my thoughts on setup assitants support in emacs. thanks for taking the time to read this. thi