From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.design,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Extreme Documentation" [was: INFO on add-ons] Date: 04 Sep 2002 01:58:59 -0400 Sender: xemacs-design-admin@xemacs.org Message-ID: References: <3D728E82.8000808@cox.net> <87ptvxxkoj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fzwtxad9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87adn1x705.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <3D73F89D.2070106@cox.net> <877ki3wvvn.fsf_-_@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <877ki2tntl.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031119118 8760 127.0.0.1 (4 Sep 2002 05:58:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 05:58:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, xemacs-design@xemacs.org Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([207.96.1.200]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17mTBU-0002H8-00 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:58:36 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA18705; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 02:00:04 -0400 Original-Received: (from turnbull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA18668 for xemacs-design-mailman@xemacs.org; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 01:59:06 -0400 Original-Received: (from mail@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA18662 for turnbull@tux.org; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 01:59:06 -0400 Original-Received: from colo.agora-net.com (colo.agora-net.com [207.245.84.69]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA18652; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 01:59:01 -0400 Original-Received: from ttn by colo.agora-net.com with local (Exim 3.34 #1) id 17mTBr-00020j-00; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 01:58:59 -0400 Original-To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" In-Reply-To: "Stephen J. Turnbull"'s message of "Wed, 04 Sep 2002 12:51:02 +0900" Original-Lines: 38 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 X-XEmacs-List: design Errors-To: xemacs-design-admin@xemacs.org X-BeenThere: xemacs-design@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of design and features for XEmacs. List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.design:1379 gmane.emacs.devel:7436 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7436 "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: Not what I meant---that is implied by "wiki". What I am concerned about is that wikis grow organically according to the needs of their current users. This does not necessarily address the needs of someone new coming in from outside the community, not as well as an intelligent single author/editor can. it does address the newcomer needs if the newcomer takes a positive attitude and contributes to the wiki. the first contribution can sometimes be simply a question that opens the eyes of others. it is easy to (none too subtly) dismiss emergent intelligence (especially if you spend your days in an institute of policy and planning, which presumably holds some kind of centralized (single root) model as tenet :-). that is an attachment that i can't help you with, however. Also, wikis and FAQs address the past and the common use. They do not provide much if any support for innovative users and developers as such---but once again, an intelligent author/editor could do wonders with that material, I bet. we have the internet and public publishing. that's all that's needed for you (or anyone innovative) to write a "blue sky" page, and seed it w/: M-x index-wiki, M-x wiki-crawl-bot, M-x wiki-comp-lit-review, M-x wiki-self-IQ-test, etc. true innovation does not need as much hand- holding as you would suggest; it might even suffer from it. Finally, a pointer from the official documentation to the wiki is useful, but users will justifiably consider that a "punt" by the developers. exactly! this is how users and developers work together. so much nicer than harping on some poor fool w/ write privs is to be foolish and free amongst all your friends (some of whom enjoy/abuse write privs ;-). if some people practice excellence and demonstrate intelligence, hey that's a bonus. i'm glad to see that happening, anywhere. thi