From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enhancements to options menu (was Re: Reveal mode) Date: 08 May 2002 02:03:05 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200204302119.g3ULJAP06813@aztec.santafe.edu> <5xznzj30j0.fsf_-_@kfs2.cua.dk> <200205031825.g43IP3e00651@aztec.santafe.edu> <5xwuuk6b4q.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200205052315.g45NFFE29713@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200205072359.g47Nxk108577@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1020837991 5748 127.0.0.1 (8 May 2002 06:06:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 06:06:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel =?iso-8859-2?q?Jan=EDk?=), storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm), rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 175Kas-0001Ub-00 for ; Wed, 08 May 2002 08:06:30 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 175Kis-0003Bt-00 for ; Wed, 08 May 2002 08:14:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 175Kae-0003az-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 02:06:16 -0400 Original-Received: from colo.agora-net.com ([207.245.85.68]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 175KXx-0003QV-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 02:03:29 -0400 Original-Received: from ttn by colo.agora-net.com with local (Exim 3.34 #1) id 175KXZ-000438-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 02:03:05 -0400 Original-To: "Stefan Monnier" In-Reply-To: "Stefan Monnier"'s message of "Tue, 07 May 2002 19:59:46 -0400" Original-Lines: 34 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3703 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3703 "Stefan Monnier" writes: I'm not sure whether those users were novices, but even if they were, that's not relevant. My point is that fringes are good and if a novice removes them because she thinks she doesn't need them, she'll probably hit problems later on because of it. We don't break Java's memory safety just because some novice Java programmers might ask "how do I do pointer arithmetic". hmmm, you make it sound like turning off fringes incurs some kind of threat to emacs' structural integrity or design, which would shock me if it were true. [insert console-freak rantings here.] in any case, to get back on topic, i suggest looking at the "separate demo program" approach when it comes to these kinds of "what should be DEFAULT?" decisions. emacs now has (more) mature network capabilities, so might as well go all the way and define a "standard listener protocol for configuration" to shift these questions to userland, where tastes are properly fickle and fluid. this way, even the configuration style can be user-configured (via guile-gtk frontend, or sawfish, or dotfile generator, etc). we would no longer need to sketch a composite user to target, but let users describe themselves (through their preferred way of expressing themselves). in the end, the demo is maintained by users for themselves. its simplistic modeling of "preference" extends as users learn to program more, to take advantage of its underlying expect(1)-nature (and API!). all users participate in programming emacs. demos can be a fine thing full of art and craft, with cool Change at its core. emacs as next p2p virus -- woo hoo! thi