From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joaotavora@gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Metaproblem, part 3 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:21:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203193110.GF12748@thyrsus.com> <20141203215426.GA15791@thyrsus.com> <87ppbzplcw.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83iohr48kr.fsf@gnu.org> <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417778521 7390 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 11:22:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 12:21:54 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwqxL-0005sC-TZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:21:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49833 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwqxL-0005Cn-GC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 06:21:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37692) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwqxB-0005CK-1R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 06:21:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwqx5-0000B0-BN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 06:21:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]:44831) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwqx5-0000As-48; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 06:21:35 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f169.google.com with SMTP id r20so1074644wiv.4 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 03:21:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=os2/t15cFPEN3GeQsZ8xL5Ny1iqavljRZxCVNqGCXTQ=; b=snq8reFKOOFYQlDc1bGOGvDcS1s/6etAfspVWCk/7tkffZLzZ0k9EjYmXI9wtg9uJ4 SSKLjOsEm8X4tMWCxzwNS1mQ+tUvKnYwjSCd8Bf6L3qDPkFaigwjuA4RqQ1Zd6vCtBw2 VfEq3PTrswj/lFb0L0qgwHrh1ObtrwouZAayqRCtQcguVk7xYRUSkbB8Vbtv40l9cF1f jxwpAWHuVu0RRenantNSV2f+DubHS0jJjdQjBWp3/7nPXeK5W7kbwzrWyh8jVYAEgqGk k+94fQj1TTSFH6erzSXfA+IFJdmEkoHJkD2vzAZ65otO9AMiAKX4gCQk+FxpEjrtkg/L 2BDQ== X-Received: by 10.180.104.65 with SMTP id gc1mr3356966wib.46.1417778494407; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 03:21:34 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from GONDOMAR.yourcompany.com (53.236.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt. [93.108.236.53]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pl1sm1869216wic.16.2014.12.05.03.21.32 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Dec 2014 03:21:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:45:03 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (windows-nt) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178903 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> "If this is your first time contributing to Emacs, ask for a mentor on >> emacs-devel first. A mentor can be anyone who has contributed to Emacs >> at least once, and will guide you through the instructions [linked] >> below, as well as any extra documentation. He/she can also answer >> specific questions about copyright assignment, version control, >> changelogs, coding style, etc." > > OK, so how would this mentoring be different from what we have now? Right, the devil in is the details. So let me make a concrete example. JR Well-Behaved Hacker reads the above guideline writes to emacs-devel: Hi, I started working on some code/have an idea to add/modify a frankinbogen-mode to Emacs. It's my first time contributing, and I have no idea: * if it should go into Emacs or Elpa, * if I have to assign copyright * if I need commit rights or, make a branch in my clone or, send some = patches * how to write those curious ChangeLogs/format commit messages * how to organize code in files * etc etc etc (any more?) =20=20=20=20=20 Can anyone mentor me off-list so that my contribution can be evaluated? The "I have no idea" bit could also be "I have no idea about anything" :-D > Does it happen in private email instead of on the list? I would say off-list, yes > If it's still on the list, do we formally tell people stay out of the > mentor/mentoree dialog and let the mentor alone handle that? It can happen on list, and we would advise people to stay out of the dialog. > the only difference that a specific person will step forward and say > he/she will be the mentor for a particular J.R. Hacker, and all the > rest should stay as it is today? Imagine that this is working already. The idea is that the next email from JR Well-Behaved Hacker would be. So, I have cleaned up my frankinbogen-mode with the help of my mentor JR Mentor. The code lives at a feature branch on blabla, and even though JR Mentor thinks it is not very useful for him personally, he thinks that we can discuss it here. Would the maintainers have a look? > IOW, I have a difficulty translating the above principles (with which > I agree) into practical steps that need to be made, to make the > procedure different from what it is now. Can you please clarify? I agree it is not *very* different from what we have now, and indeed if it's not going to be concise and clearly different and effective, it's best not to add the additional overhead. Which is not a lot, I think, but it's too early to be estimating that. I hope I did clarify a bit, but ideally others can pitch in. I think simulating a hypothetic platonic dialog between "JR Hacker" and "JR Mentor" would be a good format to pitch in. Phillip, what would be the ideal dialog between mentor and mentoree be? Jo=E3o