From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joaotavora@gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: An easier way to edit variables Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:37:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1421249880 9989 80.91.229.3 (14 Jan 2015 15:38:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:38:00 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 14 16:37:54 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YBQ12-0002c0-1v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:37:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46811 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBQ11-0007Ru-Gz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:37:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39010) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBQ0w-0007P2-Sb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:37:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBQ0t-00047y-Ij for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:37:46 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:39521) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YBQ0t-00047q-Bv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:37:43 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YBQ0p-0002Rl-RK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:37:40 +0100 Original-Received: from 53.236.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt ([93.108.236.53]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:37:39 +0100 Original-Received: from joaotavora by 53.236.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:37:39 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 40 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 53.236.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:20LtkW/a/fr0kXWiBpQETcfw3cI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:181255 Archived-At: Ted Zlatanov writes: > T> It should work for all variables, of course, not just for > T> customizable variables. > > Perhaps, but I think it's significantly less useful to users if you just > drop them into a "enter a Lisp form" interface. It could actually be > harmful and lose their data. Well, M-x customize can also "lose your data". I see your point, but this is the point of the feature: change *any variable*, including "dangerous" variables hidden from the user. Isn't that "disabled command because new users find it confusing" feature used anymore? > You'd need good custom editors for strings, lists, alists, plists... and > a guess on which one to use... and lots of luck :) IMHO it's better to > try to write customization tools that all users can use, and link to > those. Why? Assume the user knows Lisp and use form, and pass it to READ. Did you try my prototype? > I really think those guys are in the minority and already know about > `setq` and `M-:` and so on. If you're targeting them specifically, it's > not as useful as I thought. I've known about this, well, since the beginning, and of course I do use it. But it still sucks to have to use M-: (setq find-the-variables-name-again ) Multiple C-x o to go to the *Help* window. Scroll around until I find the form that I want to change. Copy that to the kill ring More C-x o Yank it to the minibuffer Remember to quote it, almost always Perhaps I can cut down on some of these steps, but still, what Tom proposes is way nicer.