From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving files from lisp/gnus/ to lisp/net/? Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:15:10 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20041015200547.GB15360@fencepost> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1097874971 23744 80.91.229.6 (15 Oct 2004 21:16:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:16:11 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 15 23:16:02 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CIZQg-00038W-00 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:16:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIZXq-0000Pi-7A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:23:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CIZXj-0000Pc-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:23:19 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CIZXi-0000PQ-IG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:23:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIZXi-0000PN-9h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:23:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.91.229.2] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CIZQB-0004fU-6T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:15:31 -0400 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CIZQA-0006my-00 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:15:30 +0200 Original-Received: from c494102a.s-bi.bostream.se ([217.215.27.65]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:15:30 +0200 Original-Received: from jas by c494102a.s-bi.bostream.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:15:30 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 50 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c494102a.s-bi.bostream.se Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:yTVy1SECDEXphjWArxqTee83ITQ= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28459 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28459 Miles Bader writes: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 09:26:59PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote: >> People seem to fear using some files in gnus/ because they think the >> files might end up loading all of Gnus. I believe moving some of the >> self contained files in Gnus elsewhere would be good. This would make >> it clear that they aren't an intrinsic part of Gnus. > > Offhand I think it's a great idea, but a few twists come to mind: > > * What will these file's status in "upstream" Gnus be? Gnus tries to be > compatible with older emacs versions, so it seems like you can't just > remove them from the Gnus distribution, but for this "separation" to have > any real effect for Gnus developers, it would seem that they shouldn't be > kept in their current location. Gnus need them to work. Perhaps writing a README.MAINTAINER file for Gnus, that the files should not be modified considerably without talking to the Emacs maintainers is sufficient? Part of this effort is also to reduce the number of gratuitous changes to the files. The files are supposed to be stable. If people have to coordinate the patches, perhaps the quality of the patches that are added will be higher. Not that low quality patches has been a problem, though. > * As discussed in another thread, Richard has said that files which are not > under lisp/gnus/, and not "obviously" Gnus-related, should have a > slightly different status with respect to the Gnus developers -- he > doesn't want arbitrary changes made to them without more discussion > (whereas with files under lisp/gnus/, you have a freer hand). Personally, I don't think this is a problem for the files I mentioned. What do other Gnus developers think? I hope that I am speaking for most Gnus developers when I say that we try to make these files standalone from Gnus, and that we encourage non-Gnus projects to use them. It seems that we could be more successful with this, and giving up some control of the files and moving the into Emacs might achieve that. If Gnus developers think this is a bad idea, just say the word and I'll stop. This merging effort was initiated because I perceived that this would help achieve the goals I felt were implicit on the Gnus list. > Moving in the repository is _very_ bad. Definitely just "remove + add"; you > can include the old location in the CVS log for users to follow. Agreed.