From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: describe-char and unicode data Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:07:50 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87he82vkho.fsf@deneb.enyo.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1052806198 14661 80.91.224.249 (13 May 2003 06:09:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:09:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: fw@deneb.enyo.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue May 13 08:09:54 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19FSz4-0003nu-00 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 08:09:54 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19FT5o-0008Fx-00 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 08:16:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19FSyL-0000Hj-02 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 02:09:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19FSxZ-0000HY-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 02:08:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19FSxX-0000HN-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 02:08:20 -0400 Original-Received: from 178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net ([217.13.230.178] helo=yxa.extundo.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19FSxU-0000Dl-00; Tue, 13 May 2003 02:08:16 -0400 Original-Received: from latte-wlan.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D67oB4008667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 13 May 2003 08:07:51 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030513:rms@gnu.org:c85714e42f73e631 X-Hashcash: 0:030513:rms@gnu.org:c85714e42f73e631 X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030513:fw@deneb.enyo.de:90e1500de4ea5546 X-Hashcash: 0:030513:fw@deneb.enyo.de:90e1500de4ea5546 X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030513:emacs-devel@gnu.org:56c4a35c811a8c2d X-Hashcash: 0:030513:emacs-devel@gnu.org:56c4a35c811a8c2d In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 12 May 2003 03:38:18 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Original-cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:13822 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:13822 --=-=-= Richard Stallman writes: > Recipient is granted the right to make copies in any form for > internal distribution and to freely use the information > supplied in the creation of products supporting the UnicodeTM > Standard. The files in the Unicode Character Database can be > redistributed to third parties or other organizations (whether > for profit or not) as long as this notice and the disclaimer > notice are retained. Information can be extracted from these > files and used in documentation or programs, as long as there > is an accompanying notice indicating the source. > > Perhaps that last sentence gives us permission to release a free work > containing the full information, but we had better check that with a > lawyer first. Below is the response from Unicode. Is this sufficient? Rick also made the following comment: Note that if you use any Unihan data, you should look at the UCD documentation and pay particular attention to which fields are normative and which are not; and to what is "provisional". A lot of the data in Unihan.txt is not normative, it is spotty and provisional and subject to change and improvement without notice. So I think anyone working on this should separate the display into a normative part and a "provisional" part so the user isn't lead to believe some data are normative but really are unchecked data. --=-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from yxa.extundo.com ([unix socket]) by yxa.extundo.com (Cyrus v2.1.12) with LMTP; Tue, 13 May 2003 02:05:10 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from unicode.org (unicode.org [209.235.17.55]) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D057B3032067 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 02:05:07 +0200 Received: from izanami (ip-64-139-31-109.sjc.megapath.net [64.139.31.109]) by unicode.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h4D055r04467; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:05:06 -0400 Message-Id: <200305130005.h4D055r04467@unicode.org> To: jas@extundo.com Subject: Re: draft-rmcgowan-unicode-procs-02.txt Cc: ken@unicode.org Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:05:02 -0700 From: Rick McGowan received: by Apple.Mailer (2.95.2) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Hello Simon -- You asked: > Has there been any progress? I notice that the UCD-4.0.0.html says: > | Recipient is granted the right to make copies in any form ... > Yes there has been progress. You can take this as an official response. We intend for the Unihan database to have the same rights and restrictions as all of the UCD. Therefore we inserted the revised clause into UCD-4.0.0.html, intending that it over-ride what is in the Unihan file. The Unihan database has not yet been updated to a 4.0 version, so 3.2 is the current one. But the 4.0 UCD clause over-rides the older terms in the Unihan 3.2 file. When the Unihan database is (soon) updated to a 4.0 or later version, the clause will be changed in the Unihan database itself to align with the new intent, and to match the 4.0 UCD. > In a discussion about adding support for this in the text editor > application Emacs, Richard Stallman raised the following issue: > > ,---- > | Unihan.txt> Recipient is granted the right ... to freely use > | Unihan.txt> the information supplied in the creation > | Unihan.txt> of products supporting Unicode. > | > | It is not clear that that gives us permission to transform > | this data into a anything that would be under a free license, > | but we could ask those who released it whether they meant it > | to allow that. Would someone like to contact them and ask? > | > `---- Yes, we mean that. If people couldn't take our data and transform it by compression, compilation, extraction, etc, then it wouldn't be very useful. We definitely intend people to use it. What we don't really want is for people to take our data verbatim and re-distribute it verbatim, although such use is definitely allowed explicity. We would prefer that, if people need to distribute our data verbatim, they do so by referring to the "latest version" on the web, and point to our web site. That way constomers of the products can know how and where to get the latest versions. But to make a product that uses Unicode, almost everyone needs to take the character information and properties and somehow distill that information into a form that is suitable for use by a program during the course of execution. When you do so, it is nice to also allow a means for end-users to get an upgrade of the data by supplying some distillation mechanism, or explaining your data format (if you use one) so that users can do manual upgrades if needed. A good example of using the Unicode data files is provided by this program: http://www.agfamonotype.com/software/charinfo.asp That program comes with a compressed database, and has an option for live update to the most recent Unicode data files by including a parser within it. Any user can download the Unicode data files from our website, and ask the program to upgrade itself from those files. Please let me know if you have any further questions. All the best, Rick --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel --=-=-=--