From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Uday S Reddy Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: keyboard politics [Was: Key bindings proposal] Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:20:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <0LyWQo-1Ovn6v30nm-01699h@mx.perfora.net> <4C66B417.5070009@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281806446 16662 80.91.229.12 (14 Aug 2010 17:20:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:20:46 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 14 19:20:45 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkKPU-0002We-BJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 19:20:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33365 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkKPT-0001do-J5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:20:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59204 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkKPK-0001dc-BS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:20:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkKPF-0001lE-8f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:20:34 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:37309) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkKPE-0001l9-Tx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:20:29 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkKPD-0002Rz-9Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 19:20:27 +0200 Original-Received: from cpc10-harb6-0-0-cust112.perr.cable.virginmedia.com ([92.232.137.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 19:20:27 +0200 Original-Received: from u.s.reddy by cpc10-harb6-0-0-cust112.perr.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 19:20:27 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc10-harb6-0-0-cust112.perr.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 In-Reply-To: <4C66B417.5070009@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128697 Archived-At: On 8/14/2010 4:19 PM, Xah Lee wrote: > Microsoft is also a keyboard manufacture, starting in mid or early 1990s. If they put their logo on keyboards that they make, that would be understandable. We would have a choice whether to buy those keyboards or not. > Apple always has a Apple logo on their keyboards on the Cmd key, only about 3 > years ago it's officially removed. Those who make 3rd party Apple keyboard are > subject to licensing fee too, am sure, and probably also a royalty. So, you are saying that Microsoft is just copying Apple. What is the big deal? Apple is a complete system manufacturer. They can design their systems whichever way they please. And, people have a choice whether to buy those systems or not. Microsoft never made any complete systems. They started out as sellers of compilers and made their name as the *suppliers* of DOS to IBM. When IBM's monopoly ended and the PC became an open architecture, they became suppliers to us. So, they do not have ownership of the PC or the keyboard that goes with it. Their assertion of ownership to a pair of modifier keys, whose idea has been long in existence before their birth even, is illegitimate. > thinking about this... i think FSF might make a keyboard where the Win/Cmd key > is a GNU logo. Actually i think that's a good idea because the Win logo key on > keyboard is a commonly heard complaint from GNU/linux programers. Actually i > think this is quite a doable market... Several kbd makers started to have a > cult following due to the fact they sell kbds without the win logo, e.g. Daz, > Happy Hacking, and are frequently buzzed about in programing forums and in > gadget review sites. Sounds quite sensible. But it would be even more sensible to break the Microsoft-branded key in its function, not just in its appearance. Cheers, Uday