Re: [elpa] elpa-admin 1d766451f8: Suggest `package-install' to install packages (bug#63800)

Re: [elpa] elpa-admin 1d766451f8: Suggest `package-install' to install packages (bug#63800)

[Stefan Monnier]

>        (insert (format "<p>To install this package, run in Emacs:</p>
> -                       <pre>M-x <span class=\"kw\">package-install</span> RET <span class=\"kw\">%s</span> RET</pre>"
> +                       <pre>M-x <span class=\"kw\">list-packages</span> RET</pre>
> +                       <p>Then, find <span class=\"kw\">%s</span> in the list, click on the link, and click <pre>Install</pre>.</p>"
>                        name))
>        (let* ((readme-content (elpaa--get-README pkg-spec srcdir))
>               (readme-text plain-readme)

Hmm, I don't like this change.
IMO, we should make this part of the page *smaller* rather than bigger.

Also, this reminds me of those horrible PDFs we have t work giving steps
to go through with their horrendous web-application, which to me scream
"this web-application is broken, URLs were invented so you don't need
those steps".

So if we want in general to recommend users use `list-packages` rather
than `package-install`, let's just put something like:

    To install this from Emacs, use `M-x list-packages RET`

But this should be motivated by a preference, not by a bug (which we
should fix instead), and not by something that only affects a tiny
minority of packages (otherwise, change the above code so it only
affects those very few packages).


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] elpa-admin 1d766451f8: Suggest `package-install' to install packages (bug#63800)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Hmm, I don't like this change.
> IMO, we should make this part of the page *smaller* rather than bigger.
>...
> So if we want in general to recommend users use `list-packages` rather
> than `package-install`, let's just put something like:
>
>     To install this from Emacs, use `M-x list-packages RET`

This might also work.

> But this should be motivated by a preference, not by a bug (which we
> should fix instead)

There is no bug in Emacs here. Just on ELPA page providing instructions
that are not working for :core packages.

> .... , and not by something that only affects a tiny
> minority of packages (otherwise, change the above code so it only
> affects those very few packages).

I could also put the `list-packages' suggestion behind check if the
package is :core or not.

P.S. Shouldn't this discussion be done in the original bug report thread?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
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Re: [elpa] elpa-admin 1d766451f8: Suggest `package-install' to install packages (bug#63800)

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 13/07/2023 15:51, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> But this should be motivated by a preference, not by a bug (which we
> should fix instead)

The bug was in the instructions: for every package we say that they can 
install it by using 'M-x package-install'.

But there is no sense to do that for built-in packages: they are already 
installed, so package-install predictably says so instead of upgrading 
to an external version.

Emacs 29 now has a user option to change the latter behavior (which IMHO 
is not the right direction to solve this), but even so, it's off by 
default, and the ELPA website needs to have instructions which will work 
in the previous versions of Emacs.

Basically, see the previous discussions.

Re: [elpa] elpa-admin 1d766451f8: Suggest `package-install' to install packages (bug#63800)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> Hmm, I don't like this change.
>> IMO, we should make this part of the page *smaller* rather than bigger.
>>...
>> So if we want in general to recommend users use `list-packages` rather
>> than `package-install`, let's just put something like:
>>
>>     To install this from Emacs, use `M-x list-packages RET`

At which point I question the point of this advice in the first place.

> This might also work.
>
>> But this should be motivated by a preference, not by a bug (which we
>> should fix instead)
>
> There is no bug in Emacs here. Just on ELPA page providing instructions
> that are not working for :core packages.

I guess that is what is meant by "bug" here, but as the discussion a
while ago demonstrated, it is not obvious if we want to regard switching
from built-in packages to external packages as the same thing as
installing an external package.

>> .... , and not by something that only affects a tiny
>> minority of packages (otherwise, change the above code so it only
>> affects those very few packages).
>
> I could also put the `list-packages' suggestion behind check if the
> package is :core or not.
>
> P.S. Shouldn't this discussion be done in the original bug report thread?

Re: [elpa] elpa-admin 1d766451f8: Suggest `package-install' to install packages (bug#63800)

[Stefan Monnier]

> I guess that is what is meant by "bug" here, but as the discussion a
> while ago demonstrated, it is not obvious if we want to regard switching
> from built-in packages to external packages as the same thing as
> installing an external package.

But when `package-install` is used interactively, we can ask the users
what they meant.


        Stefan