From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 20:15:17 +0300 Message-ID: References: <8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com> <83lfmxgt6c.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhbcg6s4.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="75672"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 Cc: ndame@protonmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 15 19:16:18 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jOle6-000JZn-71 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:16:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52914 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jOle5-00005a-9m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:16:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41860) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jOldD-00083O-SX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:15:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jOldC-0000Eu-TU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:15:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]:41299) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jOldC-0000BJ-NA; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:15:22 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id h9so759632wrc.8; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:15:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NIVrp7yUi7qfsPt3qCm4GuZcoFi8NS4rVluZDOJcy0I=; b=DwPYubyyQ2wNSa5C/n8LspQeONQQdJUgDXUhEvAzlIdYQIHrzCrSfNEMgLbQ81Ug7H hNH6wNVaKc39f3FTy5rAVj+7BCMU+8C16sy/vnq/bdatE+48dJyKNqJCVwZJwhhIIOTf o5a8SerTr/yYcDcQNchIgoudvE2IlH1SQer8f7Wuoltiv0bchybLTyap9yd9nUegCMtR HK8y1LoRzBz+GlNbZPNuxIzGSRL2MzgpRNRPcllXNWNF/+bN6L7DeW3OjODWFiFdGHUs 4CHIBxJKuF7ZBIT+QetSDa1ZZKFonJhxwWzVpffSGedoeJyAzBYUu75emSXHVOk5AI1m qWdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NIVrp7yUi7qfsPt3qCm4GuZcoFi8NS4rVluZDOJcy0I=; b=MF3ybcgdbcqEFd7+x6RFS1ubhUf9gbI4jqaHgEqqUAH2cfuTMI714Yz+m1F1kN2qeg LTDEGOeNR5LGZoUiy8l9rioEzL0EhTi2OaiyGnV3cenobH92ga2cFZ/PHSTkB2HQ7jfe oJZ2b3tcnIbJ4XZp7PzCUIHtsvElHFmNi7rQ/wFbKR5X3hAUlvD1B3M7dKcIPBC5fLlN d/6Zeasxl3vouxkNPy085DX8k6yJ1VoZZwNM02aiyZE4EIHHx2u9OnHilrVsM3OSGOeY t9WUD1tktObWwVN6Kis0mULixSMYJJ/hA9HgFJkeJHyOBNmsyGoaNqRiLu2Yp3oy3N3b 5S/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYgF4/vgW3ZxVvSp6n0qrpiV5JPX8yDnWGq46Lqftts1OhH0VNJ gOkxVkrFMLpZ+UxUSek6SSA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJj8GaxuvmocyvxyuZiMxOwaz80OOTWAWvz9VTs338VmLR464bQKRPni1v2J97AlJKIyCakgg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:688f:: with SMTP id h15mr30521904wru.352.1586970920264; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a187sm215349wmh.40.2020.04.15.10.15.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:15:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83zhbcg6s4.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::42d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247037 Archived-At: On 15.04.2020 17:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> I think the difficulty here is to look "contemporary" and yet fit every >> platform Emacs is run on. Button widgets look different on each. Even >> between GUI toolkits. And change between releases. > > There are only 2 variants: native buttons (provided by some toolkit) > or the ones we draw ourselves. And there's no requirement that they > all look the same, I think: they should have the look-and-feel of the > toolkit being used. These are implementation options. But either the "ones we draw ourselves" are designed to fit each platform, or they looks the same across platforms, with our personal look. The latter option is sometimes taken by professional applications in which the user spends most of their time (e.g. Blender, or at least some of it earlier versions that I've tried). >> The other option, of course, is to look both modern and unique, but it's >> a harder proposition, especially without a graphical designer on the >> team. And this stuff gets outdated quickly. > > I think "modern and unique" is a contradiction of terms nowadays ;-) In principle, I disagree. But it's difficult, and it's a balancing act, of course, between having them look distinct and interesting, but still familiar enough, and not too "tacky" (meaning, a design too exotic can become an eyesore after a while). It's a problem that bigger companies put whole design departments on.