From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Miles Bader" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Display-based word wrapping Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:40:17 +0900 Message-ID: References: <87y74x9rfl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87prq9t2ya.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87wskgsyty.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1214188833 29321 80.91.229.12 (23 Jun 2008 02:40:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:40:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 23 04:41:17 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KAbzZ-0005Gh-2p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:41:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57282 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KAbyj-0006OQ-Rr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:40:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KAbyf-0006O6-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:40:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KAbyd-0006Nj-LA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:40:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46447 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KAbyd-0006Ng-EE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:40:19 -0400 Original-Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.245]:59286) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KAbyd-0001Yg-4N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:40:19 -0400 Original-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so507265ana.84 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:40:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=Pgh/aprHLdwmbE0lM2u41B+97WOu2B6YGBio6X1+X5Q=; b=t7/q743ipwCpsQMQNbWieSMmIZN1i+9tYxdy/+Ie71N/8y1d0sU2NJZQ/AYdHvxG4N vBEeBQ09JqKj4JeKnH/jTDd7uiIme7uzBY1ClTQ4j3QHLFkrfsy0Yn4BORAh2kgvlKHF TF9faEdik7j1I5OsuI88Vs2SqXG/obxvNbSwg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=sY+A63TqHFoLFIzWlV2HZofrUu4cb3soXk+MQXSzHDbTAta1/HhSNgVVFY1YyqK8gA t/J4r/dlTE4Opj1WHnJOuvVdDCu91lZTEFlf1DnKSFEQhq40oQt8x9zDP7gKuClO5oon OQwhRAeqQKUBJ2OfYw98OPPq1YQpD1gimm+0o= Original-Received: by 10.100.42.4 with SMTP id p4mr12127983anp.76.1214188817827; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.232.19 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:40:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 62e4d8acd043eacd X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:99750 Archived-At: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> A similar argument applies to wrapping indicators: For traditional >> wrapping modes, it's Ok, and even useful, when wrapping indicators are >> quite noticeable, because they usually indicate an exceptional >> condition. But for word wrapping, wrapping is the normal case, so more >> care should be taken to make sure wrapping indicators [if any] are not >> annoying. > > IOW, word-wrapping will be a big time sink? > Yes, I definitely expect that: line-end indicators, visual-line > movement, ... and I'm sure people will find more things to wish > for afterwards (adaptive-fill-prefix anyone?) I'm not sure what your point is .. if you mean that we should add a "simple" word-wrapping feature to the display engine first, ignoring other features which make it usable for regular use, maybe you're right. I think many of those "time-sink" features are necessary for it to be really usable in a way users expect, though, so we should at least make a tentative plan to add them. [Display-time word-wrapping is probably a nice thing, but I don't think it's quite as simple as people often seem to assume it is -- devil, details, etc.] The visual movement stuff may not be be necessary for "display only" use -- e.g. in a Gnus article buffer -- and we probably want to just turn off wrapping indicators in such usage. -Miles -- Frank Lloyd Wright - "TV is chewing gum for the eyes."