From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.mail.mh-e.devel,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The MH-E repository Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:39:34 +0900 Message-ID: References: <25625.1117492799@olgas.newt.com> <87is0z5yyv.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <13139.1117559381@olgas.newt.com> Reply-To: snogglethorpe@gmail.com, miles@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1117575811 18660 80.91.229.2 (31 May 2005 21:43:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 21:43:31 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: mh-e-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Tue May 31 23:43:20 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists-outbound.sourceforge.net ([66.35.250.225]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DdEV7-0007xn-48 for gmmd-mh-e-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:42:17 +0200 Original-Received: from projects.sourceforge.net (sc8-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net [10.3.1.7]) by sc8-sf-spam1.sourceforge.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1913325E; Tue, 31 May 2005 14:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from sc8-sf-mx2-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.12] helo=sc8-sf-mx2.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DdESY-0001WP-0R for mh-e-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 31 May 2005 14:39:38 -0700 Original-Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]) by sc8-sf-mx2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1DdESU-00065F-NV for mh-e-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 31 May 2005 14:39:37 -0700 Original-Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 49so435323wri for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 14:39:34 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ViB/QNJEAv2XjlKrZM+8zvda7zTetuGEpwYF5X1Ihxr64jCOy6Bnf5gWhlEhesGFjs5x7a/TyZTWMRyyJspIzabnGWmEYCX9JOG+tvLt9y91EbSfGdYlC99i7ex5qS/0bANXZqDT11CqcfGdnx8I/d4ILg4LdsJqdgamNHhYqTw= Original-Received: by 10.54.17.69 with SMTP id 69mr126705wrq; Tue, 31 May 2005 14:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.54.19.31 with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2005 14:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-To: mh-e-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <13139.1117559381@olgas.newt.com> Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. Report problems to http://sf.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1&atid=200001 0.0 RCVD_BY_IP Received by mail server with no name 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_PERIOD BODY: Text interparsed with . 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_SLASH BODY: Text interparsed with / 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_MINUS BODY: Text interparsed with - 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_AT BODY: Text interparsed with @ 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_APOSTROPHE BODY: Text interparsed with ' 0.3 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list Original-Sender: mh-e-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Errors-To: mh-e-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: mh-e-devel@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: This is a forum for the MH-E developers. Others are welcome to lurk. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:39:34 +0900 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.mail.mh-e.devel:10456 gmane.emacs.devel:37966 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:37966 On 6/1/05, Bill Wohler wrote: > I'm not familiar with Arch. Are you talking about > http://www.gnu.org/software/gnu-arch/? Yes; the wiki at (I think) http://wiki.gnuarch.org might be more informativ= e. The key property of arch that makes things easier is the ability to create and apply "changesets" (basically, patches) that operate by file _identity_ rather than filename. So a changeset from the Gnus tree does more or less the right thing when applied to Emacs tree.=20 Arch also keeps track of what changes have been merged, which reduces the need for manual book-keeping (one of the most stressful things about more manual merging, I find). Note that this doesn't remove the need for manual intervention, as there are cases where the right thing doesn't happen, but it takes care of about 95% of the work. I have a sort of mental checklist of exceptional cases to be on the lookout for and be ready to fixup by hand (for instance the Emacs file "man/ChangeLog" contains entries for changes to gnus texinfo files, but also many other non-Gnus texinfo files, and only the Gnus-related changes should go into the Gnus tree). Note that my usage of Arch for this is sort of a hack -- Arch has no explicit notion of a "subtree"; merging in the Emacs =3D> Gnus direction results in many "unappliable" changes, because they are to files which don't exist in Gnus (Arch puts such changes in a scratch directory where you can look at them if you want). > How often do you sync? Usually about every 2-3 days; however I also follow the Gnus mailing list and sync immediately if someone makes an important change. Note that the relationship is: Emacs trunk <=3D> Gnus-5.10 branch (bi-directional) Gnus trunk <=3D=3D Gnus-5.10 branch (one-way) So changes from Emacs eventually end up in the Gnus trunk too, via the Gnus 5.10 branch. Activity on the Gnus 5.10 branch is relatively light, which makes the job easier. > Do you clone te CVS check-ins including log messages? CVS log messages are not used; Arch is "tree changeset" oriented rather than file-oriented, so there's no easy way to maintain them.=20 However in Emacs (unlike some projects), basically all changes have in-tree ChangeLog entries too, so my scripts try to create relevant log messages from, which are what gets committed to CVS. I've relatively knowledgeable about the way Arch works, and have many of my own scripts, so I'm not sure how easy it would be for someone to start doing the same thing from scratch. BTW, I would certainly be willing to try syncing MH-E in the same way I sync Gnus. My experience with Gnus is that while it's a bit of manual work, it's not that much, and it's not unpleasant. -Miles -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by Yahoo. Introducing Yahoo! Search Developer Network - Create apps using Yahoo! Search APIs Find out how you can build Yahoo! directly into your own Applications - visit http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=offad-ysdn-ostg-q22005