From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 23:49:37 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <8334xcwank.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32701"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Gerd_M=c3=b6llmann?= , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 22:50:43 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1vsG-0008Cp-T3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 22:50:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1vrQ-0005rJ-FA; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:49:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1vrO-0005r7-Dh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:49:46 -0500 Original-Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1vrL-0000KT-B9; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:49:45 -0500 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00CD15C00DB; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:49:42 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:49:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1699739381; x=1699825781; bh=RRm/+2rhVfXBLsFov1I/y11qy/d/cUOrXR9 WU+P6e8Y=; b=VwAjarm98x2a3eiwbHu3J3DonmqOCrDQKZPrHIFxJmx3thnl8Qk fNxcKiHXHWANycXuIElwU65DSWVFlQz/z+4oncQiWqSNGXWafGs8Ejmy4ads1I4a X8uL0knxylJ3r2DXdnndjXCUq5z+F9X3Hr7rui7qHO0/mNsAkOlf0Ed0U76okT7C i5tWWJ4yJTV16p/L991oE2KHWtYXLOq60bGxAXhr4qW56QFv7q0YlM4r5Y7+5nL3 v1r7t1033AAWK33pGsurHvdFX2Ovtucpp2MzfIrRPcpZHzs30i9pI4nqvZryKXhg 1A4G+7SG7qYH7CrQwwEhf6rS16R5oqdvDsA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1699739381; x=1699825781; bh=RRm/+2rhVfXBLsFov1I/y11qy/d/cUOrXR9 WU+P6e8Y=; b=YaxKqVz0LuAy5+spFEJcPE6fiGleCucEWxtsdnh+GNN9vB7WWbY Nac1YuwnsUHu72H6nngPehGPBJRHBfHqrFaypWkvRDeRFpYUS1yESxeFl7W+atna YCXJoxmmIeNhv+E3i+ogzREFGmqR711ie9JMeokZNV8SLTFLjLxqNmKqWKgPPEuU 0ol3Lht9OKqde6FhlRvQBSAfMV66gHAAca3zu8loKr78bRyiOdEKzkcseWni/AxV hvhiFiijHmfft+Pm/bMduyKv2S9NdWCJuI4vJtyagyOlGgE6ipyTptQBQKf7sChS OP0/aqYm+OiKuXxN4SyE4Pdd3gO648oTGwg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedruddvhedgudehfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhm ihhtrhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpedvteffkedtffdtleeltdegtdduudffhfdvieelgfefudejhfehieeuuefg heegueenucffohhmrghinhepghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtne curfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:49:40 -0500 (EST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.29; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=out5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -69 X-Spam_score: -7.0 X-Spam_bar: ------- X-Spam_report: (-7.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-4.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312615 Archived-At: On 11/11/2023 20:07, Gerd Möllmann wrote: > Seq is 10 years in Emacs, its polymorphism is unused in the tree. Joao > showed that it's slow. Dmitry mentioned that it is not a full > replacement for what is in cl-lib. FWIW, it doesn't seem to me that seq's dynamic dispatch is the main part of what makes it "slow" in a number of cases. cl-lib is not that well-optimized either. Just recently (https://debbugs.gnu.org/66806#23) we tested both cl-set-difference and seq-difference, and the hand-rolled version was much faster. I think both of these libs could use more performance-oriented contributions, and for most other uses (data structures smaller than in that example) their speed is largely comparable.