From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:45:03 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <8423a35750d8d8e0437c7708f6b4d0bbdfdb7fe0.camel@yandex.ru> <6981052a75913ea435ae2adaccdaa1c66252a6df.camel@yandex.ru> <6a22f3608f37e238ffbd20d6dead86d3aa76d01e.camel@yandex.ru> <96766e99bf2618cc4290498933c6e32bc2a0f98a.camel@yandex.ru> <83o7ldpcs8.fsf@gnu.org> <3c64fe534fee45ff75c9e2c3cece8e2ee146091e.camel@yandex.ru> <87bkhdnl94.fsf@posteo.net> <183ae6c17b4d07701e76003dc72c25d8d2705611.camel@yandex.ru> <87pm5t7yu4.fsf@yahoo.com> <339b006829e123a3f6eeaffbd66f557ea837fdcd.camel@yandex.ru> <87y1kgdax7.fsf@web.de> <83o7lc91kh.fsf@gnu.org> <87leggd2cu.fsf@web.de> <83ilbk8u1k.fsf@gnu.org> <448f75fb368e4ae61dd8bd7899047602a806228a.camel@yandex.ru> <83h6r48a02.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt0v70d3.fsf@gnu.org> <03bef840fc28d46a2ffbf9c94c18a3cbf96de08f.camel@yandex.ru> <83cz1q75do.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="709"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.3 Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, arne_bab@web.de, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 20 17:46:17 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qBdYf-000AWo-Ev for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 17:46:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBdXm-0004tO-Mb; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 11:45:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBdXk-0004py-Bk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 11:45:21 -0400 Original-Received: from forward502a.mail.yandex.net ([178.154.239.82]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBdXg-0001jz-BD; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 11:45:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-52.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-52.vla.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c15:2f8a:0:640:b50b:0]) by forward502a.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 8ADEF5ED81; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:45:04 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-52.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id 3jjlYuwDb0U0-oWhTBxyL; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:45:04 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1687275904; bh=nwNYYg7Ddw989n9oc4OoOc10A5u230Y6uAUd1dJfFNo=; h=References:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID; b=IyqWQOfTbtM9FMhASd++jDfvetTwFTRjRR919XQpDsI+oqWOTE3ppE8xIj68VPeAe 8H41C8Xxmx11ZZkV1j6lBvRfkgt3+uDBmMBtC+5vUFnFPhywBg16S/k0rPSIHVtMNH V4eYjoDnxVsx4Vcf1HlpcnxLLDOTKG7EsY/FLdMw= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-52.vla.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru In-Reply-To: <83cz1q75do.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.154.239.82; envelope-from=hi-angel@yandex.ru; helo=forward502a.mail.yandex.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307089 Archived-At: On Tue, 2023-06-20 at 14:14 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > Cc: arne_bab@web.de, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, philipk@posteo.ne= t,=20 > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 00:29:10 +0300 > >=20 > > > Practical suggestions for changes that would make it easier are > > > welcome, but they must not make the lives of the current developers > > > significantly harder. > >=20 > > For starters I would be happy if at least the section about submitting > > patches > > was reformatted into two sections. My last email explaining that no > > information > > will be lost in such reformat=C2=B9 was unanswered, so I don't know wha= t is the > > current state of this discussion. > >=20 > > 1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2023-06/msg00506.html >=20 > I already said I didn't think this was a good idea, and explained why > I thought so. You said you afraid some information will be lost. I explained that it won'= t. You didn't provide any counter-arguments, so I kind of hoped it is clear at= this point that it will only bring benefit. If you are referring to something I didn't answer, please point that out, because to my knowledge I replied to everything. > In any case, that section hardly has any bearing on the main issue at > hand: how to make it easier for people to contribute.=C2=A0 I explained > that as well. That is because the large issue consists of many small ones! The only singl= e "big move" that is theoretically possible is just move Emacs to a Gitlab instance, which will remove necessity to care of any docs because finding a developer who doesn't know how git-forges work is unlikely. But I *do not* suggest doing that because I know many long-timers would not want that. So instead I am trying to bite at different pieces that could be improved with= out affecting existing workflow. This docs discussion is just one small piece. > I'd appreciate if this seasonal "what's wrong with Emacs > contributions" discussion would either switch to discussing some > innovative and useful ideas for how to make it easier for > contributors, or just died if there are no such ideas yet. > Reiterating the same claims and the same arguments doesn't sound like > a good use of our time and bandwidth. To my knowledge, I didn't "reiterate same claims", but was answering your reasoning about not wanting to change the docs, and your reasoning didn't s= eem to have been recursive so far. And it is pointless to suggest new ideas if = we didn't even finish discussing old ones.