From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: tabulated-list sort icon is reversed Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 12:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <83a7qbtc6l.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmaqq735.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1533065754 29981 195.159.176.226 (31 Jul 2018 19:35:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Stefan Monnier , Philippe Vaucher Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 31 21:35:50 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fkaQv-0007hb-Rw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 21:35:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60443 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fkaT2-0005Vr-Ik for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37779) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fkaSs-0005VV-8A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:37:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fkaSp-0003bb-1H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:37:50 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:32944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fkaSo-0003ZF-P1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6VJT1r2129896; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:37:44 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=/GoPsgVb863UlboOTkMWNbelv/xIF22wC/V21GSY750=; b=RN4Lkuoz6+Rj0SWDxtA3YzxH9Y54+WoG4YkzN6aVy8zjmjzMkNp0VLtTYyOQZlvvudYX OdYTULsHjaAhF2N2MtkCrBGTwn+Ruara4WehHeCrVr0RkP/LHBvI4eI3k/B3XtFsGC2l LF9UXDm5L7nk63X6NsujLIskK6PWRm1LF+Ms/gOvnFYluXPxniTl3ffX8YHrVIXxQjqh X/KDJEbYwo0k9i7B6QRIWDl560n4tDCRk/MDk4N3oKi11c7WO4egzQizaYFKYDHsjW4x fNJ3rpXitwZA/U/ak1lsyft33Weww8YAle6xz5R91aOK20hVRQ+0RzXj8ck0ZX2D/bdM ig== Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kge0d2r2y-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:37:44 +0000 Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6VJbgvC031410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:37:42 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6VJbeAL015580; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:37:42 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8971 signatures=668707 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=698 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807310179 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.79 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228060 Archived-At: > > There actually is an icon that is unambiguous: the "a-z" or "z-a" one: >=20 > I'd actually prefer it to be 0-9 rather a-z (for non-latin-script > users), but yes, this is a fairly clear choice. =20 1. Neither is great, IMO. The icon should express low-to-high or small-to-l= arge in a _general_ way, and not suggest either an alphabetic or a numeric = order. What do you do with a date column whose values might be any ISO date format= ? Assuming that the actual sorting is by date (not its representation), nei= ther a-z nor 0-9 suggests what's happening. 2. Personally, I don't see the difference between this proposal: _ ___ _____ _______ and a triangle with vertex on top (like ^). The same ambiguity arises: Does it represent the current sort order (low-to-high / small-to-large)? Or does it represent the new sort order you'll get if you use that button? IIUC, the MS Windows approach (for column-sort indicators) is to reflect th= e current sort order, the same way that a bold or underlined column header = indicates that the column is selected (current). And apparently other, non-Windows contexts take the approach that the icon = represents the new order you'll get if you click the icon. How does the proposed sequence of lines of increasing/decreasing length sol= ve the problem of ambiguity?