From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:33:41 +0300 Message-ID: References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a736wyed.fsf@yahoo.com> <2F7AD0CB-FF83-4244-BD77-7E0460A77762@icloud.com> <87wo6a7abj.fsf@yahoo.com> <87o8rlbnic.fsf@yahoo.com> <45098d13-2770-4a19-6f82-b22276eb51c8@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="108628"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, seb@k-7.ch, pcr910303@icloud.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 22 13:34:45 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRDeP-000S9l-1n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:34:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48558 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRDeO-0003qx-3E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:34:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34976) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRDdY-0003MA-3p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:33:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRDdX-000827-83 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:33:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]:52454) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRDdT-0007g8-1D; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:33:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id 188so1918744wmc.2; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:33:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DcSY8/yB2Wn4Ea5KKq0PqHsvzu8GRxM0DhwUNiofl68=; b=Zk1u/URJShin7MyXDVwzoKYJUYcRzBExe7ICeQa0Ld0Fp8pkIiaZv3RCi8qkBBaUpx yU/krFTYheHAPXAptoZvju21oGYHyaD1k6avGdg/h90XF+94sExEcNpNyOwUrfsJlba1 Tl4an7YckSOZFXsS6h6fWwbWxwWmxVE0MK78SUg8gQ0g97bo5D5nIPoTY4U2UdI/Eux4 1gVai+HMvDmzf/ZLaNS2eyt/w4s5zrp+NpMH5et2/uQ7ZeCJL7CuwZGTmF6m4XTHJ/7E dmL77ibSkUjuZA3aloZV1J89o2CoQj7kqUc7z90+L3THCyiUTwdHd0HivvPEKntfh7y2 NwiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DcSY8/yB2Wn4Ea5KKq0PqHsvzu8GRxM0DhwUNiofl68=; b=E5FxJ5UmGuVNrEMu2h1wdH4wRcXrZYlPM2A9PDwdYm5+BxbBaUWtD/tELbcKa/72EE 1x+xCOqjzt3jSGKEPEw319ZWAoDyBFwpUrLyM5F4Z3TscMnTfa4ZFA7nfJ2nhEOb6z5z JeeVJYzdDk6O/b6mLAwNTYzMYUmjBPLHFtyFRdtjcvYOk2rRSnfjSiY+0lLtPtFGqOwJ CnMHCZSgQk+Cyas3o4CTP/H7qdekX8McLJ+Sd4fqI5W3sK6pJuJhamtEQXQ/TmvU6a+7 3omv2fdGlUR9uzLmfpBCTEeCxYYMpaorQcroc7uCfmTB9OFO1s87/n/k/ql9xN8Brsi4 iPIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puah8ZlQMM0K+3hqFexEutuCqCr+g0vgQTcnCn/6B528DieZ2TIN zDhjZoTaltBEcmxP0NrWaysHnMQRiLA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJPrSn3dbWc2pZ77MJfjuzcEP/LLngnCR6G/WYKw7Gzu+NARv025nyL4aJGCYimXmAKe+kAig== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4d17:: with SMTP id o23mr9938986wmh.120.1587555224732; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id p190sm7310334wmp.38.2020.04.22.04.33.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:33:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32b; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::32b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247504 Archived-At: On 22.04.2020 06:19, Richard Stallman wrote: > > So for all questions about changing defaults, we should ask ourselves, > > do we prioritize the existing 5% (or 3%, as SO poll says) userbase that > > will naturally continue shrinking over the years, or whether we prefer > > to make life easier and more productive for the users that should come > > later. > > This is entirely logical > if our main priority is how successful Emacs is, > rather than what it does. Given that I've had multiple *useful* proposal about changing defaults shot down because of the worry that existing users might be inconvenienced (having been used to the current behavior), it's a false dichotomy.