From: Phil Sainty <psainty@orcon.net.nz>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: acm@muc.de, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 20:44:55 +1300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <f2196bb4bf4e70c33d2418cca87b629d@webmail.orcon.net.nz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83fstjdiwl.fsf@gnu.org>
On 2021-10-02 19:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> There's a huge difference between breaking literal searches for
> symbols by text-searching tools, and breaking basic Emacs commands
> because the name the user sees and types is not known to Emacs.
But shorthands does *both* of those things.
The name the user sees is "s-foo".
The name known to Emacs is "string-library-foo" (or whatever).
The user types "C-h o s-foo RET" and Emacs says "no match".
The huge difference is that with shorthands the above problem happens
to every user, whether or not they're aware that symbols can have
shorthands; whereas with the "nameless" approach it happens only to
the users who have knowingly chosen to have it happen, as a willing
trade-off to achieve something else.
I'm genuinely confused that you're disapproving of a feature that
people must opt into, on the basis of a problem which already happens
with the approved feature that people can't opt out of.
(Bearing in mind that the raison d'être for my idea was specifically
to provide an *alternative to shorthands* for people who wished to opt
into reading and writing short names, regardless of the 'problems',
and to allow them to do so without affecting anyone other than
themselves.)
-Phil
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-10-02 7:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 332+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-28 0:38 Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 5:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-28 7:26 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 8:20 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 10:31 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 10:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:18 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 11:40 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 16:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 20:25 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 3:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-30 11:30 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 17:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:46 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:41 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:00 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:26 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:26 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 14:57 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 15:50 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 16:02 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 17:58 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 23:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 15:29 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 13:18 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 13:31 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 16:23 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-30 17:19 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 1:20 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:10 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:22 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-09-30 23:23 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 23:38 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 1:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-01 7:02 ` tomas
2021-10-01 13:15 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 13:53 ` tomas
2021-10-01 14:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 14:40 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 15:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 16:05 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:11 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-02 1:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 1:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 2:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-04 15:57 ` André A. Gomes
2021-10-02 1:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 1:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 1:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 2:05 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 2:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 8:39 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 8:36 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 23:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-03 21:17 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-07 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 21:13 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 21:22 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-20 6:45 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20 8:00 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-23 23:26 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:03 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 8:50 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:29 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:57 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 12:44 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:50 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 15:01 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 15:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-02 15:33 ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 19:42 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 19:59 ` But then what are namespaces ? Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 20:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 21:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 21:09 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 21:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 22:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 22:49 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 23:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-03 21:47 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:00 ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 20:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-03 1:15 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-02 15:25 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-10-02 16:08 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 22:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:10 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 9:03 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:25 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:04 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 12:34 ` Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28 6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 7:41 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 8:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 8:07 ` Helmut Eller
2021-10-02 1:06 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 15:28 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 17:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:05 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 12:23 ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-30 12:28 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:29 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:44 ` Joost Kremers
2021-09-30 13:18 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-01 0:11 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-30 12:52 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 12:55 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:49 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 0:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 14:27 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 22:50 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 0:44 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-01 7:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 7:24 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 10:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 12:24 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 13:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 0:28 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 6:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 7:44 ` Phil Sainty [this message]
2021-10-02 8:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 10:52 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 0:12 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 0:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 13:09 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 15:44 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 16:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 17:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 18:34 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 19:15 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 19:30 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 13:12 ` João Távora
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 22:07 ` João Távora
2021-10-05 22:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 11:28 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 12:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 13:16 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 16:23 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 20:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 21:10 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 21:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-10 21:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-07 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 22:24 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 6:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-10 21:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-10 21:18 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 14:16 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 15:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 17:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 18:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 23:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:38 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:52 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:52 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 1:38 ` T.V Raman
2021-09-28 19:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 18:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 19:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 22:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 23:59 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28 7:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:49 ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 14:04 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:01 ` Adam Porter
2021-09-28 15:20 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:23 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:15 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 6:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 5:57 ` Elisp LSP Server Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-05 6:38 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 9:50 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 11:27 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 11:46 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:22 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 21:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-07 22:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 0:49 ` Po Lu
2021-10-10 12:48 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-10 14:19 ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-10 16:49 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-10 19:25 ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-11 7:44 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 21:15 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 5:29 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 5:48 ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 17:14 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 17:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 20:53 ` dick
2021-10-13 2:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 11:56 ` dick
2021-10-13 13:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 4:47 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 0:02 ` Po Lu
2021-10-27 14:36 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-27 18:04 ` dick
2021-10-27 18:27 ` tomas
2021-10-27 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-27 18:55 ` Karl Fogel
2021-10-27 19:15 ` dick
2021-10-12 7:14 ` tomas
2021-10-12 8:04 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 22:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 3:42 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 5:20 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 12:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 12:49 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:37 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 23:42 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:38 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-14 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-14 22:26 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-15 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 9:54 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-12 22:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 5:36 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 22:40 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-10 23:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-11 7:34 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 9:10 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 10:46 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 10:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 21:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 7:17 ` tomas
2021-10-14 12:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-15 22:47 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-11 21:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-22 16:23 ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 16:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 16:45 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 19:59 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 22:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 22:48 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 23:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-23 23:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:47 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-23 2:00 ` Po Lu
2021-10-25 2:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:00 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 16:55 ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 20:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-25 2:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:22 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 7:45 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-25 7:51 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 8:23 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-30 6:51 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-01 11:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-01 17:47 ` Tim Cross
2021-11-03 3:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-03 20:06 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05 5:55 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 6:25 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05 9:56 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 5:46 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 10:15 ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 2:52 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 3:37 ` dick
2021-10-12 3:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 22:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 4:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 5:55 ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 7:22 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 10:21 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 12:14 ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:51 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 13:08 ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 22:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 0:00 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 0:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 0:31 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 17:15 ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-13 17:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 20:00 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 21:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 23:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 6:58 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 6:52 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 11:08 ` dick
2021-10-14 13:34 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-10-14 8:20 ` João Távora
2021-10-15 22:51 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-16 19:02 ` João Távora
2021-10-17 23:49 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-17 23:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-20 22:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 0:32 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-18 1:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 2:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 12:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 13:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 7:01 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 8:43 ` [OT] Elisp as a general purpose programming language (was: Elisp LSP Server) Joost Kremers
2021-10-14 10:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-10-14 7:03 ` Elisp LSP Server Po Lu
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