From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 15:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <20200426172206.GC18629@ACM> <87y2qhnc9a.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="33116"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas , Emacs developers To: Stefan Monnier , =?utf-8?B?S8OpdmluIExlIEdvdWd1ZWM=?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 27 00:42:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jSpye-0008WM-3m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 00:42:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48144 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSpyd-0005KX-4Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:42:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41558) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSpxi-0004hD-KO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:41:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSpxh-0005oU-4g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:41:22 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:49962) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSpxg-0005oD-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:41:20 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03QMdrxq051027; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:41:18 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=2m6WY5JPncyyPI4J94ZcFb9+3bCJg673+XcIkPcLaeY=; b=G4DFDyz8tXyXLNkuUDysaa4drOImA7C0IG2ds2DVRbruxY9+vMaKpfEz2XTh2Xh2opmB FlFwW0JOVO68Sk9mMETeSVP++foJZHZh7dy4QbmyFKpJijnwVr+hFhCWLTkROfJE1wjX x+cyj4znU4g0g0ryg2YH5gxQVXnZrJYCEecCPHurfxTVOlVVn56xIv4+wWCqJvr93rUg 4MqwvhCEjX7ZbpkCoXdgCGGBySmlPld/23vke+9gnlfo/J1L7BOqJTrbj77g87tsb+RD y4yeWkEAIeWGloLO8oUoKSNVdm0drC/X74GbzllBcWMSZFKt/jTCI0UO9d6Q1ZmgU0Ym Uw== Original-Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30md5kuqmq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:41:18 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03QMc0TE011670; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:41:18 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30mxrp85fk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:41:18 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 03QMfFcX021004; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:41:15 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9603 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004260203 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9603 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004260203 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/26 18:41:19 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247870 Archived-At: > > I don't think I will ever manage to remember any of > > the keybindings for the outline-(show|hide)-=E2=80=A6 functions, >=20 > For this reason I implemented `reveal-mode` ;-) 1. FWIW, both Org Mode and Outline Mode offer all anyone needs to know about showing/hiding, navigating, etc. - in the menu-bar menus. I can't understand people lamenting an ability to remember key bindings. Especially veteran users - they should know how to ask Emacs. If you're in a mode you don't understand well, use `C-h m' or `C-h b'. If such help isn't good enough then we should improve it. And any veteran Emacs user should expect that an important or longstanding major mode probably also has one or more menu-bar menus, which can help with key bindings. And anyone who discovers that some mode has a poor menu (or none) can file a bug report to improve (or create) it. 2. It sounds like trivially adding TAB as a key for cycling among items in Outline mode would, regardless of what mode is used for NEWS, be a good idea. And such a lame argument shouldn't be put forward as a reason to switch to Org mode for NEWS. (I'm not saying anything here about which mode should be used for NEWS.)