From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439822486 30631 80.91.229.3 (17 Aug 2015 14:41:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:41:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie , Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 17 16:41:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRLb7-0006g4-CX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:41:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55722 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRLb6-0004To-Ri for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:41:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49985) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRLb0-0004Nz-2c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:41:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRLaw-0002fI-1s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:41831) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRLav-0002f9-RV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:41:01 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t7HEevTe018674 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:40:58 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7HEev6c007148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:40:57 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7HEeuwA003993; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:40:56 GMT In-Reply-To: <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188843 Archived-At: > Paul, these changes of yours are simply the Wrong Thing. The fact > that one "needs" such flaccid workarounds like EQM and the folding of > quote characters with quote characters in (some of) the searching code > should be taken as a hint just to stop and think hard. Amen. Handwriting on wall. Look. See. > I predict that there will be an open-ended series of bugs following > from this, little things that just don't quite work anymore, and their > fixing will be difficult and introduce yet more complexity and more > little things that don't quite work. >=20 > Emacs is steadily getting more complicated, and these changes are > gratuitous complexity. I would say that Emacs's biggest danger at > the moment is disappearing up its own complexity. We should be > resisting this process, not accelerating it. Yes. As I said a while back: So far, my impression is that there have been a shiPload of deep changes that try to work around all kinds of problems that have been introduced - and to work around the problems that those workarounds have introduced... I haven't seen such an invasive change in a long time (never?). Makes Rube Goldberg machines look Occam-elegant. And for what? For what? Seriously.