From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 21:44:56 +0300 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <83pnbegsvm.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5hby1.fsf@gnu.org> <2e4e8ce9-d857-f3e3-31cf-a40dee67bd25@yandex.ru> <83y2q1dsvh.fsf@gnu.org> <2468efa6-7dbd-8634-44cc-586bb6985f49@yandex.ru> <83pnbddrfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11ldpxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wpdms7.fsf@gnu.org> <88771DA6-67FA-48E6-A7F4-CC0B1E17832B@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="113024"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , Yuan Fu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 20:46:01 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXUU4-000THL-P6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 20:46:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34734 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXUU3-0006xT-BU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 14:45:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43052) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXUT9-0006Cq-4E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 14:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]:42775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXUT7-0003fB-3H; Sat, 09 May 2020 14:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id s8so5793668wrt.9; Sat, 09 May 2020 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WygBfEUK+lBgPQDmINIoFHTA/nUky7bSNqt2wAqgWEw=; b=OV64bfLUBYjezBQmSQQB4fD4eOYP/SpNg6rp0uQYjKz0iCgAhVkVpo/ZL/LLpLT93G Q2api4RqogyQYIRjSvo5w8hFUX8WoYnAyP1yeFOI6mjGfQ6NTW1QFIUVkWddHGTSF7Xz 4FsGeIFk/ORGnUNgY7DPqixns/11qZ6xBOp6krlepZ5laM9Sye4+3layeRw7t5gxQz7A /tmHE+36G6g5Vtzhj4UZzfZVK9Whe7eGW74gstTrC7n9bPDrRN0H+AeYFkbQ5RLmBUUj oFxBfM/pcw1t/2Ztxw3GZK3uiDHqGyevfoAnhwcLqBrtC3oYfNg8FGaYMXzBzJPi/YRf ugSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WygBfEUK+lBgPQDmINIoFHTA/nUky7bSNqt2wAqgWEw=; b=p9LDyovzp5JI+fd/gxeszuuJ2+t2uxQt92EJ+ohQHFkFMBHuQOZaLTD7oD0I9OU/Cz L3yAgHEgKnU9p3mxPWY4nFDFW2Mzl0DpB7TckHpcWrxdEG//Bm5OolTLCcEG9HO9y3HP swlV+UKxfbpc/A8XvlE/KDrJI+TXUi68qiIwXAGAw+5qN4C9OberOWQPQ/XLsXpiWkh9 maCXcngHEDAKOSdocXKOu8CYZAMCyDjbWsyUb7TUDl7UFP8LTvn68s/lPnCQYcCHQWhO GByzm1AAoVfGVNtPDGWQXkm+GrenbaC1fZCMWZT9WqFdOQ55xgKhWt5t73A24j0eNS0/ s1kg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub8Aw+EGybv0gjsFP4ZPF5Qg0uFFJvZhNK3U6sbxlLFX40Q4rhy xPboxUsbaCgS88kzBhdaU40= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKJvs3KU48cmaDfir/1BicMOr3jaOij8gfqK5Gd3Dx2I2qmX94A/XcvZL81ZX4XFMoUbWqtSg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8023:: with SMTP id 32mr10137941wrk.247.1589049898685; Sat, 09 May 2020 11:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r20sm17990248wmh.26.2020.05.09.11.44.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 May 2020 11:44:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42e; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249548 Archived-At: On 09.05.2020 21:19, João Távora wrote: > Not many immediate "killer" advantages, Yuan Fu, but: > > - eglot.el would be simplified, tho maybe only slightly.  That is good. Splitting a program would simplify it? I'm somewhat skeptical so far. > - language specific quirks (that do exist despite LSP) would be dealt >   with in the corresponding mode, not Eglot, by using Eglot's >   existing interfaces. That sounds fine, but then you'd have to convince major mode authors to set these settings. And educate them on what values they should use. Considering you likely know more about C/C++ LSP servers than Alan, for example, that doesn't sound productive. And python-mode is unmaintained... js-mode hasn't seen a lot of dedicated development either. You get my drift. > - Eglot could grow _more_ programmatic interfaces for that >   to happen. It doesn't have them because it's the chicken and >   the egg. We'll have to discuss those. > - More importantly, many bugs that target Eglot's UI but are actually >   Emacs's would come here. Discussing them in Github and hailing (mostly) >   Stefan and Dmitry there works, sort of, but it would be better if we > used  the >   Emacs bug tracker (yes I know there are strong opinions on this).  But at >   the very least people like Eli and Richard would be able to participate >   regularly in those discussions, and provide insight that just doesn't >   reach the Github-sphere. Umm. As a person with a fairly opinionated approach to package development yourself, I think you might underestimate certain downsides in sharing this responsibility like that. And it doesn't look like Eli and Richard have a lot of free time to get into the particulars, or fix Eglot's bugs. I don't either (so far). > Let me give you an example: didn't your eglot-box thing end up being > an eldoc-box instead?  It should be in eldoc.el, it's a pretty good idea! > Well if eglot was in the core, you'd just automatically do it for eldoc.el > and  get help on how to do it from seasoned Elispers who hang around > here and not Github. How would that help? Eldoc has a defined interface. If eglot-box could be based on that, it could just be considered for contribution on its own.