From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs i18n Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:06:29 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: References: <87o97aq6gz.fsf@jidanni.org> <87tvgoud56.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o96wk2mi.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1hjfvjd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871s3p0zdz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83h8ckezyt.fsf@gnu.org> <83o96qegv1.fsf@gnu.org> <32b1ab1b-bef4-629a-8830-b1dcc6915087@cs.ucla.edu> <83a7iae9va.fsf@gnu.org> <05ed2dec-2a84-f7dc-1af5-c9d923992785@cs.ucla.edu> <87bm2p56gu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838sxrdgco.fsf@gnu.org> <831s3jdbrk.fsf@gnu.org> <83va0vbbuc.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="88815"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 07 17:15:09 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h1vfo-000Mxu-OZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 17:15:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54668 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1vfn-00024V-B8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:15:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45331) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1vXY-0003yA-6e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:06:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1vXV-0006aK-CD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:06:36 -0500 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:33354) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1vXT-0006Yp-Fr; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:06:31 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF81B16145F; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:06:30 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id PbktvUrWh-iU; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:06:30 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028141614D7; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:06:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id e-xk44Nx1lit; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:06:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8EEC16138A; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:06:29 -0800 (PST) Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECH In-Reply-To: <83va0vbbuc.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:233891 Archived-At: On 3/6/19 7:30 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I don't see how relying on > the function to perform the extraction will work with non-fixed > strings. Yes, if a caller computes a string and then passes it to 'message', xgettext's static analysis won't find the string. Although these calls are in the minority, they do happen, and they'll need to be rewritten. This is standard practice when any application is internationalized, and I've already given an example of this. Of course Emacs is a much bigger project than a small program like 'cat' or 'uniq', and so Emacs will take much more work to internationalize. But this is a problem of quantity, not of technology. That is, translators will need to do more work than usual (as there are more messages to translate) and developers will need to do some more work (as there are more "tricky" uses of 'message' in Emacs than there were "tricky" uses of fprintf in 'cat'.) However, the standard GNU internationalization technology should work just fine with Emacs. > E.g., what to do > with Org, which is in the core, but also distributed separately. A simple way to address that problem is to have Org use and ship the same message catalog that Emacs does. Alternatively, Org could ship a separate message catalog that contains only Org's messages and is therefore a subset of the Emacs catalog. However, I doubt whether the hassle of doing the latter would be worth the effort.