About desktop file

About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

The 'desktop' file is very useful but sometimes it remembers too many 
things..

Suppose I am using "foo" font in my init.el file:

(set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "foo 13" )
(set-frame-font "foo 13" nil t)

and that I am working with many buffers. Now suppose I change the font 
to use 'bar' font:

(set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "bar13" )
(set-frame-font "bar 13" nil t)

When I restart Emacs, it loads the buffers with the old 'foo' font. 
Usually, to have the buffers with the new font, I remove the desktop 
file and reload manually the working buffers.

Is there a way to do this differently?

My opinion is that desktop file should remember cursor position, working 
buffers, their visiting modes, searched word, frame geometry-position 
etc. not the font how buffers are displayed and similar.


Ciao,
Angelo.

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 10:31:41 +0200
> 
> The 'desktop' file is very useful but sometimes it remembers too many 
> things..
> 
> Suppose I am using "foo" font in my init.el file:
> 
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "foo 13" )
> (set-frame-font "foo 13" nil t)
> 
> and that I am working with many buffers. Now suppose I change the font 
> to use 'bar' font:
> 
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "bar13" )
> (set-frame-font "bar 13" nil t)
> 
> When I restart Emacs, it loads the buffers with the old 'foo' font. 

I don't think I can reproduce this.  But since you didn't show the
full recipe, I cannot be sure I did what you did.

Are you saying that the old font was recorded in the desktop file, but
the new one isn't?  How is that possible?  Why would the old font end
up being recorded in the desktop file, but not the new one?

Maybe you changed the font outside the Emacs session, just by editing
the init.el file?  In that case, you should change the font inside the
session, and then save the desktop, then the information in the
desktop file will be updated for the next restart.

> Is there a way to do this differently?

Yes.  First, you could change the font inside the session and save
desktop.

Another possibility is to disable restoring frames (a font is an
attribute of a frame, not of a buffer).

There's also a possibility to control which variables get saved and
restored, but I'm not sure it will help in this case.

> My opinion is that desktop file should remember cursor position, working 
> buffers, their visiting modes, searched word, frame geometry-position 
> etc. not the font how buffers are displayed and similar.

If you choose to restore frames, Emacs assumes you want them exactly
as they were the last time.  Otherwise, why use desktop at all to save
frame configuration?

Of course, if someone wants to extend desktop.el to provide even more
control on what aspects of frames are restored, such patches will be
welcome, I'm sure.

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 11/09/2016 18:34, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
>> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
>> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 10:31:41 +0200
>>
>> The 'desktop' file is very useful but sometimes it remembers too many
>> things..
>>
>> Suppose I am using "foo" font in my init.el file:
>>
>> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "foo 13" )
>> (set-frame-font "foo 13" nil t)
>>
>> and that I am working with many buffers. Now suppose I change the font
>> to use 'bar' font:
>>
>> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "bar13" )
>> (set-frame-font "bar 13" nil t)
>>
>> When I restart Emacs, it loads the buffers with the old 'foo' font.
>
> I don't think I can reproduce this.  But since you didn't show the
> full recipe, I cannot be sure I did what you did.
>
> Are you saying that the old font was recorded in the desktop file, but
> the new one isn't?  How is that possible?  Why would the old font end
> up being recorded in the desktop file, but not the new one?
>
> Maybe you changed the font outside the Emacs session, just by editing
> the init.el file?  In that case, you should change the font inside the
> session, and then save the desktop, then the information in the
> desktop file will be updated for the next restart.

No no no. I didn't change anything. This is a recipe:

Save you current ~/.emacs.d folder then create an empty one:

mkdir .emacs.d

and put there this init.el file

$ cat init.el

(set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Source Code Pro 13" )
(set-frame-font "Source Code Pro 13" nil t)

;; Instead of saving on ~/.emacs.desktop
(setq desktop-base-file-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop")

;; Instead of saving on ~/.emacs.desktop.lock
(setq desktop-base-lock-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop.lock")

;; Save desktop
(desktop-save-mode 1)


Now start Emacs and visit, for example, init.el. Quit Emacs saving the 
desktop.

Restart Emacs. It reload init.el and the font used is right, Source Code 
Pro. This is confirmed in Options | Set default font.

Now, in the init.el file, change "Source Code Pro 13" with, for example, 
"Lucida Console 13". Quit Emacs. Restart Emacs. It reload init.el but 
displays it with "Source Code Pro" NOT with the font we have set in the 
init.el file, and Options | Set default font still shows it is using 
Source Code Pro. I would expect the buffer is rendered with the font we 
have set in the init.el file.

Now if you quit Emacs and rename the desktop file,

mv desktop desktop-save

the next time you start Emacs, it starts without desktop file and 
scratch buffer and all the other visited buffers, hereafter, are 
rendered with Lucida Console, i.e. the font we have set in init.el. Also 
Options | Set default font confirms the new font is used, now.

The desktop file stores the font even if init.el says to use another one,

$ grep Source desktop-save
(setq desktop-saved-frameset [frameset 1 (22485 45444 720000 0) (desktop 
. "208") [...] (font-backend uniscribe gdi) (font . "-outline-Source 
Code Pro-normal-normal-normal-mono-17-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1") 
(border-width . 2) (internal-border-width . 0)[...]

My opinion is that desktop file should not register this information, 
the font used should be always what is set in the initialization file.. 
otherwise why it is called "initialization" file?

But this is only my opinion..


Ciao,
Angelo.

Re: About desktop file

[Chad Brown]

> On 11Sep, 2016, at 13:13, Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:
> 
> […]
> 
> My opinion is that desktop file should not register this information, the font used should be always what is set in the initialization file.. otherwise why it is called "initialization" file?
> 
> But this is only my opinion..

If you do this, and then open a new frame (C-x 5 2), what font does the new window use?

~Chad

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 11/09/2016 23:32, Chad Brown ha scritto:
>
>> On 11Sep, 2016, at 13:13, Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:
>>
>> […]
>>
>> My opinion is that desktop file should not register this information, the font used should be always what is set in the initialization file.. otherwise why it is called "initialization" file?
>>
>> But this is only my opinion..
>
> If you do this, and then open a new frame (C-x 5 2), what font does the new window use?

...the font defined in the init.el file.

In other words, the first frame has the wrong font while the new has the 
right..

Angelo

Re: About desktop file

[martin rudalics]

 > When I restart Emacs, it loads the buffers with the old 'foo' font. Usually, to have the buffers with the new font, I remove the desktop file and reload manually the working buffers.
 >
 > Is there a way to do this differently?

Customize ‘frameset-filter-alist’.  That's precisely what this variable
should have been devised for.  I can't help much with this because since
commit e65c307 my init file font settings are not respected anyway.

martin

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 22:13:25 +0200
> 
> > Maybe you changed the font outside the Emacs session, just by editing
> > the init.el file?  In that case, you should change the font inside the
> > session, and then save the desktop, then the information in the
> > desktop file will be updated for the next restart.
> 
> No no no. I didn't change anything. This is a recipe:
> 
> Save you current ~/.emacs.d folder then create an empty one:
> 
> mkdir .emacs.d
> 
> and put there this init.el file
> 
> $ cat init.el
> 
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Source Code Pro 13" )
> (set-frame-font "Source Code Pro 13" nil t)
> 
> ;; Instead of saving on ~/.emacs.desktop
> (setq desktop-base-file-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop")
> 
> ;; Instead of saving on ~/.emacs.desktop.lock
> (setq desktop-base-lock-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop.lock")
> 
> ;; Save desktop
> (desktop-save-mode 1)
> 
> 
> Now start Emacs and visit, for example, init.el. Quit Emacs saving the 
> desktop.
> 
> Restart Emacs. It reload init.el and the font used is right, Source Code 
> Pro. This is confirmed in Options | Set default font.
> 
> Now, in the init.el file, change "Source Code Pro 13" with, for example, 
> "Lucida Console 13". Quit Emacs. Restart Emacs. It reload init.el but 
> displays it with "Source Code Pro" NOT with the font we have set in the 
> init.el file, and Options | Set default font still shows it is using 
> Source Code Pro. I would expect the buffer is rendered with the font we 
> have set in the init.el file.

That's exactly what I meant, sorry for not making it more clear.

> My opinion is that desktop file should not register this information, 
> the font used should be always what is set in the initialization file.. 
> otherwise why it is called "initialization" file?

Does Martin's advice give you what you want?  I think different users
will have different expectations regarding what frame parameters of
existing frames should be restored, so customization is the right way
of fitting this to your needs.

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 01:43:55 +0200
> 
> > If you do this, and then open a new frame (C-x 5 2), what font does the new window use?
> 
> ...the font defined in the init.el file.
> 
> In other words, the first frame has the wrong font while the new has the 
> right..

Yes, because the first frame is restored based on the desktop file,
together with its frame parameters, which include the font.

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 12/09/2016 08:23, martin rudalics ha scritto:
>> When I restart Emacs, it loads the buffers with the old 'foo' font.
> Usually, to have the buffers with the new font, I remove the desktop
> file and reload manually the working buffers.
>>
>> Is there a way to do this differently?
>
> Customize ‘frameset-filter-alist’.  That's precisely what this variable
> should have been devised for.  I can't help much with this because since
> commit e65c307 my init file font settings are not respected anyway.
>

Maybe I haven't understood things.

On EmacsWiki [1], I find

'To change the default font for the current frame, as well as future 
frames, put either of these in your init file:

(set-face-attribute 'default nil :font FONT ))
(set-frame-font FONT nil t)

where FONT is a string naming the font you want, for example, "Droid 
Sans Mono-10"'

So I would expect that restarting Emacs, not only the second but also 
the first frame is rendered with the new font. If I have to customize 
something else, like you suggest, the EmacsWiki information are incomplete.

The question, then, is: How an user can change the default font so that 
this change in the init file is honored also by desktop file? What to 
put in the init file..

Angelo


-----
[1] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SetFonts

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 12/09/2016 18:43, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
>
> Does Martin's advice give you what you want?  I think different users
> will have different expectations regarding what frame parameters of
> existing frames should be restored, so customization is the right way
> of fitting this to your needs.
>

I don't understand why an user, that tries to customize the font, has 
the expectation to find this in the second frame and not in the first.

 From my point of view, the best, and clean, solution is to regenerate 
the desktop file, leaving my init file as it is now.


Angelo

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:14:21 +0200
> 
> Il 12/09/2016 18:43, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
> >
> > Does Martin's advice give you what you want?  I think different users
> > will have different expectations regarding what frame parameters of
> > existing frames should be restored, so customization is the right way
> > of fitting this to your needs.
> >
> 
> I don't understand why an user, that tries to customize the font, has 
> the expectation to find this in the second frame and not in the first.

Because frames loaded from the desktop file override the init file
settings.

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:07:17 +0200
> 
> On EmacsWiki [1], I find
> 
> 'To change the default font for the current frame, as well as future 
> frames, put either of these in your init file:
> 
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font FONT ))
> (set-frame-font FONT nil t)
> 
> where FONT is a string naming the font you want, for example, "Droid 
> Sans Mono-10"'

This is no longer accurate when desktop-save mode is in effect.

> The question, then, is: How an user can change the default font so that 
> this change in the init file is honored also by desktop file? What to 
> put in the init file..

I think Martin explain how to achieve that: you need to customize the
list of frame parameters that are not restored from the desktop file.
The corresponding variable belongs to frameset.el because this is the
infrastructure used by desktop.el to save/restore frames.

Alternatively, you could customize desktop not to restore frames.

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 13/09/2016 16:20, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:14:21 +0200
>>
>> Il 12/09/2016 18:43, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Does Martin's advice give you what you want?  I think different users
>>> will have different expectations regarding what frame parameters of
>>> existing frames should be restored, so customization is the right way
>>> of fitting this to your needs.
>>>
>>
>> I don't understand why an user, that tries to customize the font, has
>> the expectation to find this in the second frame and not in the first.
>
> Because frames loaded from the desktop file override the init file
> settings.

..but the font configuration is not matter that desktop file should handle..

desktop file could override what isn't yet in the init file but not what 
it has.. otherwise which is the role of init file?

In any case, it seems we are wasting our time. If you think this 
behavior is OK, leave as it is. As I wrote, I will continue to 
regenerate the desktop file when I will find these kind of "issues" 
because for me this is the best and clean solution.

Thanks,
  Angelo.


PS. Just for the record, this init file is sufficient to have the new 
font in the first frame restored by desktop file:

$ cat init.el
(add-to-list 'initial-frame-alist '(font . "Source Code Pro 13"))
(add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(font . "Source Code Pro 13"))

(setq desktop-base-file-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop")

(setq desktop-base-lock-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop.lock")

(desktop-save-mode 1)

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 23:35:31 +0200
> 
> > Because frames loaded from the desktop file override the init file
> > settings.
> 
> ..but the font configuration is not matter that desktop file should handle..
> 
> desktop file could override what isn't yet in the init file but not what 
> it has..

desktop.el restores various variables as well, thus overriding the
init file.

> otherwise which is the role of init file?

For the stuff that is not in the desktop file.  And we provide
customization variables that allow users to control what is and isn't
restored from the desktop file.

> In any case, it seems we are wasting our time. If you think this 
> behavior is OK, leave as it is. As I wrote, I will continue to 
> regenerate the desktop file when I will find these kind of "issues" 
> because for me this is the best and clean solution.

I think the cleanest solution is to customize frameset.el as suggested
by Martin.  But it's your call, of course.

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

>
> I think the cleanest solution is to customize frameset.el as suggested
> by Martin.

...but, again, you do not answer the question: where is this documented?

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:25:39 +0200
> 
> >
> > I think the cleanest solution is to customize frameset.el as suggested
> > by Martin.
> 
> ...but, again, you do not answer the question: where is this documented?

Sorry, I missed that question.

If you are saying that the manual should qualify the description of
the init file by the possible intervention of desktop-save mode, then
I think it's a good idea.  Is that your suggestion, or am I
misunderstanding?

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 15/09/2016 16:41, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
>> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:25:39 +0200
>>
>>>
>>> I think the cleanest solution is to customize frameset.el as suggested
>>> by Martin.
>>
>> ...but, again, you do not answer the question: where is this documented?
>
> Sorry, I missed that question.
>
> If you are saying that the manual should qualify the description of
> the init file by the possible intervention of desktop-save mode, then
> I think it's a good idea.  Is that your suggestion, or am I
> misunderstanding?
>

More or less...

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:01:24 +0200
> 
> > If you are saying that the manual should qualify the description of
> > the init file by the possible intervention of desktop-save mode, then
> > I think it's a good idea.  Is that your suggestion, or am I
> > misunderstanding?
> >
> 
> More or less...

I updated the Emacs manual to that effect.

Re: About desktop file

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 17/09/2016 11:21, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto:
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
>> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:01:24 +0200
>>
>>> If you are saying that the manual should qualify the description of
>>> the init file by the possible intervention of desktop-save mode, then
>>> I think it's a good idea.  Is that your suggestion, or am I
>>> misunderstanding?
>>>
>>
>> More or less...
>
> I updated the Emacs manual to that effect.
>

That is nice. Thanks. But how to customize 'frameset-filter-alist'?

With C-h v I see its current "Value:" contains fields like these:

[...]
(buffer-list . :never)
[...]
(font . frameset-filter-shelve-param)
(foreground-color . frameset-filter-sanitize-color)
[...]
(GUI:fullscreen . frameset-filter-unshelve-param)
[...]

A few fields have value ':never', others 'frameset-filter-shelve-param', 
others 'frameset-filter-unshelve-param' and so on. Now I suppose, 
'never' is to disable the option... but the others?

Maybe a standard user needs a few more details.

In any case, tanks a lot, we have just done a step forward. THANKS.


Angelo

Re: About desktop file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:04:33 +0200
> 
> That is nice. Thanks. But how to customize 'frameset-filter-alist'?
> 
> With C-h v I see its current "Value:" contains fields like these:
> 
> [...]
> (buffer-list . :never)
> [...]
> (font . frameset-filter-shelve-param)
> (foreground-color . frameset-filter-sanitize-color)
> [...]
> (GUI:fullscreen . frameset-filter-unshelve-param)
> [...]
> 
> A few fields have value ':never', others 'frameset-filter-shelve-param', 
> others 'frameset-filter-unshelve-param' and so on. Now I suppose, 
> 'never' is to disable the option... but the others?
> 
> Maybe a standard user needs a few more details.

I believe the documentation of this and the related variables have
enough detail.  If not, we can improve them.