From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:03:01 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83sf5xhnym.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20162"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Adam Porter , eliz@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 26 12:03:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvxDU-0004yw-3Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 12:03:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvxCs-0002M7-8o; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 06:03:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvxCq-0002Jg-7L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 06:03:12 -0400 Original-Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvxCn-0007Q7-Nu; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 06:03:11 -0400 Original-Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314795C01B0; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 06:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 26 Oct 2023 06:03:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1698314586; x=1698400986; bh=oai3UFBo9wRmFmxNwXLyUyiQSatEXIc0att tzdW+G/Q=; b=A2mgLsnvb4P4rTQM5mkUwPAc/wujsC9NWuzYDccZIj1cqVfvo1o VTbh3hdrVn3t30uar1AB6fb0aiD2/u0EiE4Z4w9anUxEVR4LBYOxBNwWorlXtKQw kOMghOFaCtjQ1QBNZBEe9RC4GQ+sS769RlCwNYT126oi080651+412Nu4X77US7N cD3J5mYhcPFtDW8X6AoatPubyNgZ7DjunuGU0wFivvd3usQHRqsL4qufSYi9CTU0 DB9/IHPQi59rTClXOMpTAnzXwHir8kOv5N4AulOdDlnlJ3oo1v37hR3Z/FXGfQE7 EEzZ/mTwIDeDY7AivcA/4zrB/VIgzNWPkww== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1698314586; x=1698400986; bh=oai3UFBo9wRmFmxNwXLyUyiQSatEXIc0att tzdW+G/Q=; b=ur2hhLaVgx4AWSQ55E8ne7NOdXKP5y6hLt8ui7nPcxN87htReBF +c8C9cVKks78itVf+zRLYIE4SV0gcYwUsHPN4Ahcxzlh/ASUY/9LdxPziwnUMVVN ahH5jJe8NNIRZ2DZV+FC64DDw+mQBEg1JofuGdfEanJ3QknyOvIYpWvVDdsZGVjs oqtg+M7qdtEqIcasWmdPzsHNIi0iV+dYIk83j6mXZjudyorw+FmhBw9FXWD0m8hD +CRN2BtwL5GBezzFU2fLkpZ4xEpeNkq4uHosfloInPmDBDS+cIwIPGx9ZsQgX2SM MWE/NXUMZpjYIsyETAzUZyT+GT+J8EyAo5w== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrledvgddvfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhmihht rhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpefhffehleejffegffeugefhkeektdffgfehjedvgeejtedtudehueffgffgfeej heenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumh hithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 06:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.26; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=out2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -60 X-Spam_score: -6.1 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.339, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311897 Archived-At: On 26/10/2023 12:31, Adam Porter wrote: > Hi Eli, > > I'm curious about this: > >> Btw, some of the cl-lib facilities should not be used in new code if >> they have equivalent implementations ins seq.el (which is nowadays >> preloaded) and in map.el. > > Since seq.el and map.el use generic methods, don't they have some > additional overhead compared to type-specific functions, like cl-lib > ones that are specific to lists?  Or is it small enough now that it > doesn't matter anymore? For most functions, the dispatch overhead might only show up on the radar for small sequences (otherwise it's dwarfed by useful work). And I haven't yet seen a case where it was specifically a problem. cl-lib has its own performance problems, so the real answer is for the programmer to measure all alternatives and sometimes contribute performance fixes upstream ;)