From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [Emacs-diffs] feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 14:58:47 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <874m582ixv.fsf@russet.org.uk> <871t0apsxm.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87shsm7hi6.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83a8eucwi2.fsf@gnu.org> <878tudgwlq.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360pgoyo4.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1jn3ws9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83a8eqoi08.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1jlacsh.fsf@russet.org.uk> <867f9t4n4t.fsf@realize.ch> <874m4x8sq5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8637kh4j1u.fsf@realize.ch> <87wpht4b1i.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86y4292m2u.fsf@realize.ch> <8737kd8vfh.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86bmyz2tt1.fsf@realize.ch> <50ac6d3f-54e2-4ffa-96a4-0121c5139384@default> <87eg3sw2x9.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1475938765 20853 195.159.176.226 (8 Oct 2016 14:59:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 14:59:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Alain Schneble , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 08 16:59:21 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bst5h-0003RQ-Js for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:59:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41405 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bst5g-0000ye-9I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 10:59:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54882) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bst5Z-0000y2-6J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 10:59:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bst5X-0004RS-2w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 10:59:00 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:46836) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bst5Q-0004Je-8e; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 10:58:52 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u98EwnUp004938 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 8 Oct 2016 14:58:49 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u98Ewnso010076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 8 Oct 2016 14:58:49 GMT Original-Received: from ubhmp0012.oracle.com (ubhmp0012.oracle.com [156.151.24.65]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u98EwmU3013569; Sat, 8 Oct 2016 14:58:48 GMT In-Reply-To: <87eg3sw2x9.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208100 Archived-At: > >> I was referring to a user -- > >> whether developer or not -- using a release version of Emacs and that > >> potentially doesn't even want to use package.el to install additional > >> packages. If we stick to the Emacs directory/file layout, it is a > >> unified layout that gets presented to her. Where distictions between > >> core libraries and ELPA core packages aren't visible at that level. > >> That would be worth trying to achieve, I think. (And in fact is how t= he > >> directory/files organization looks like in the current release, IIUC.) > > > > Just what I was saying. I would like to be able to access > > and use the distributed source files the same as in the > > past, without needing to use package.el. >=20 > We are talking cross purposes, I think. Not that I can see. > There are two means to "use package.el". One is "use some of the > functions in the package.el file", and the other is "have the user > interact either through the API or through the UI with package.el". It should be clear that I am talking about the latter - I do not want to _have_ to do that. > My patch would mean that, during initialization the former would be > happening -- that is, Emacs would be using some package.el functions. > But not that latter -- as a user you would not need to interact with it. >=20 > Actually, your emacs is already doing the former (initializing > packages), even if there are no packages by default. Again: Just what I was saying. I too am talking about what _users_ do, need to do, and want to do. I do not object (in principle - the devil might be in the resulting implementation) to Emacs using package.el under the covers. But see next... I would also like to find the Lisp sources distributed with Emacs (meaning at least those that have been distributed in the past and are still part of Emacs) still all under .../lisp/. If "under the covers" means only that I do not need to invoke package.el functions directly, but it also means that I cannot find (grep) all distributed Emacs Lisp files living peacefully under .../lisp/, that does not leave me a happy camper, a priori. I've been clear, I think, that I do not want to _need_ to use package.el. Myself. As a user. AND I would like to just grep .../lisp/ and its subdirs, to find Emacs Lisp code. That's all. To me, the latter is part of not needing to use package.el.