From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:47:02 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20100318185435.GB1522@muc.de> <20100319092300.GA1580@muc.de> <87iq8ssarm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1269006461 8646 80.91.229.12 (19 Mar 2010 13:47:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:47:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 19 14:47:37 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscY1-0002mN-8o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:47:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36676 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NscY0-0005kr-Nu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:47:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NscXv-0005kc-Ib for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59083 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NscXt-0005kQ-0C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:47:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscXr-00026V-H2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:47:24 -0400 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.159]:55601) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscXr-00026K-An; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:47:23 -0400 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so164641fgg.12 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:47:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=i3012dWcck5y6aCno8iLQBzfMmr1mGEolc7rrue7xAo=; b=GkoXRoC2DGfIaeohVsa4zOUZKfypaymiA+fndbTiIzr/L0hFfN8feoirv5olivWmsR rqo3NF87pizop2ESBw+BJll7oiulPVBkEhi/Pb3iSnFISM9YP0YScvkWdkrex7ZH4m8I Q2Dz/2EhbO8ZdvPAkzfLJf/NglAqmIzlkEyIM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=CUqafLO4MKwFm3T3j6a9VbpjiqjUWZluf9X/X46bEE0TFAMis9ryJHvbZd52r6d/GN 2aFoUsVLzEIichIMjgZJNldPS5uCs/NKLjsTWlWzbbhOWRj8I0f/XVFq4r2YNI3UaUhn JzvOhBWLSVZtVmzFYgr1Bd7mlKs3Oenl+yB30= Original-Received: by 10.239.181.73 with SMTP id l9mr315031hbg.55.1269006442129; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:47:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87iq8ssarm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122279 Archived-At: On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:26 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Lennart Borgman writes: > >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> >>> You and a few others, so as to save a single key easy press ( or >>> C-w) want to heap massive inconvenience on others. >> >> Not a few. All non-Emacs users (and they are a majority) are used to >> that typing a character when text is selected will replace a visible >> region/selection. > > So can we please return to the discussion how delete-selection-mode can > be made to better fit with Emacs' handling of the mark? Yes. I can of course not propose any details there since I am using cua-mode to be closer to other applications. My interest is in getting Emacs close to other applications - without disturbing or destroying those possibilities Emacs have. However getting Emacs closer to other apps is in my opinion the most important. So I am interested in those suggestions that moves a bit further in that direction. > Emacs' default settings should reflect a coherent whole that can be used > without the user needing circumventive measures between one part of the > keybindings and another. Yes. And by not using standard from other editing environment this has becoming more and more difficult. > As long as any attempt to achieve that is sabotaged, I am not in support > of "giving in" to the demands for more "standard" behavior. We are all struggling with this. It is difficult. It is not sabotage. > One important metric for me is that when handing Emacs to a person > previously not exposed to computers, every question about Emacs' default > behavior can be answered without "it's inconvenient, but people are used > to it from other applications". Hm. Excuse me but this is a bit amusing. (Mostly because it reminds me of other areas where similar claims have been made and grossly disturbs the scientific knowledge in that area.) Where do you find those? Why is it important? Please notice that I (probably) do understand what you are trying say. What I am asking you about is a creative merge of what you said above and the current situation. >> Don't you think the way to go is to make suggestions that can both >> move us towards the common defaults and do what you think is best for >> old-timers? > > Currently, any such suggestion is shouted down and not being discussed. That is not by intention, at least not by me.