From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:42:19 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83pr371rl2.fsf@gnu.org> <873a03pmgn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20100314093329.GA1362@muc.de> <87aaua3a5c.fsf@telefonica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268692988 20478 80.91.229.12 (15 Mar 2010 22:43:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:43:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 15 23:43:04 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrIzr-0003Ll-2o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:42:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55326 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NrIzq-0004me-Ad for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NrIzl-0004lL-0h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52816 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NrIzj-0004km-Ns for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrIzg-0006Wj-MX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com ([209.85.220.210]:36482) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrIzg-0006Wb-IA; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:40 -0400 Original-Received: by fxm2 with SMTP id 2so98990fxm.26 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:42:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2qgZE0YMT8MJA3A2svfX9eaytM9H3k//RP1grvHUnM4=; b=htT+DmR4eTYthLgXtnk1V30qsgJLLdBUuMrHkAwsJ2lHDgkmRdPlD1V6cOs3iZfDZn +XyTYEooBh2yZXOmsF9eInowQOuS+cLL0PyFYUM+vsCZ+HSy6eltJliMcUlsBAgy8XX5 zspG/lfn402U2NW58n8jSq+pToBxXnvc4suSU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rObojD6M0r2WLU2jneSArWEj6bENAxL7LOAnfn+JCKTrO6HvFjP0phqhrxfUt3cr4m S92lpQZ2lv8DMa28z6/21VyOnnCYaahXG7tPlkcTX5IqvGTn6PSbYmryrZtgNRgLym0N tWcXBLvoS9AgAD3iXhVdy4YSP0gN4vhRye88s= Original-Received: by 10.239.188.146 with SMTP id p18mr978829hbh.208.1268692959163; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:42:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122029 Archived-At: On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > =C2=A0 =C2=A0IMHO, if what RMS says about the newcomers' convenience havi= ng > =C2=A0 =C2=A0preference is the definitive criteria (and I think it is a g= ood one) > =C2=A0 =C2=A0scrollbars should be on the right, where most people expect = to see them > =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowadays and thus decrease the weird/intimidating first impr= ession that > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Emacs may convey on prospective users. > > Concern for newcomers does not necessarily mean doing what they > EXPECT. =C2=A0It means doing what is useful for them. =C2=A0Their previou= s > expectations are part of that question, but not necessarily the whole > of it. If you want someone to learn something then it might be a good idea not to patronize them. It is probably better to make it easy and obvious to find what can be useful for them. If they want to learn they will look for it. And who starts using Emacs without wanting to learn? ;-)