From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: OT: threats to Free Software (was: AW: Fwd: CEDET sync) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:33:07 +0100 Message-ID: References: <86bpf7q3fc.wl%lluis@ginnungagap.pc.ac.upc.edu> <4B8C42E2.3080308@siege-engine.com> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C09227D1F24@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <878wabxg0x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mxyrhxq8.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87635eycga.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87hboyhfnt.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87zl2qwsgk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267558461 19097 80.91.229.12 (2 Mar 2010 19:34:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:34:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 02 20:34:14 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmXrB-00083o-Lr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:34:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48839 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmXrB-0005DH-40 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:34:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NmXqU-0004zB-CG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:33:30 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39795 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmXqT-0004yV-IQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:33:29 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmXqS-00065h-Pq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:33:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f222.google.com ([209.85.220.222]:61807) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmXqS-00065Z-Kc; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:33:28 -0500 Original-Received: by fxm22 with SMTP id 22so692797fxm.26 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:33:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=vVui0/kGyCjxaLFbaEjoPA5Qy7ylDXJDTnmap33A97w=; b=O5PDB7vlDW2VWVHfhCyPmZiKX0nJAZHwwPMqAe5HsNabErhwEaUsYOue59afuu2tXE DEPag89/e93F53uJR5IyW9mufl3TTUBCqFIhpiyR7nZlnLaPwTU8pMBKRtDogm5k/pH+ GQm8VOId1gRvAWW9aIq4NmIAROgTlK60ZN9/Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=enUUBIZRA7BvHMyuWVXa7Wu5NqEJS3kIHitNG1xoc267gOylFEMY5eQQBi2xWtWNK9 E69r6Oz/Zye/JOM1MV6jSaNuE4mZp4sYq6T7rPSxZ0wDeBoRG+NmQtr31FZZ/jmQWW+K lvv8nXBdkSKJ82JIR6oeR+THoLIK0GzWtOrVI= Original-Received: by 10.239.189.11 with SMTP id r11mr668331hbh.211.1267558407136; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:33:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121568 Archived-At: On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I think the real threat the FSF's ideals is that computers are being > split into two camps: > - cell-phones > - web-services > there are still some things in the middle (laptops/desktops) where users > can run Free Software, but the tendency is pretty clear. > > Both sides (cell-phones and web-services) may internally run Free > Software, but users enjoy (currently at least) none of the freedoms > provided by Free Software. I think there is some true in this. Considering that maybe these two points are could be useful: - Free software for editing and creating web services might be valuable. Emacs might help there. - Tight integration between the middle (laptops) and web-services (and also cell-phones) is important. To make this happen I suspect that the library level must be straightened up. This means perhaps actively killing alternatives so that things comes out tested, used and reliable.