Re: auto-indent in emacs

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:26 PM, harven <harven@free.fr> wrote:
> Kenneth Brun Nielsen <kenneth.brun.nielsen@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> I want to auto-indent a section (actually a whole file) in Emacs.
>>
>> I googled, that the shortcut C-M-\ ("CTRL+ALT+backspace") does the
>> job, but since I have a danish keyboard, where "backspace" requires me
>> to push the META-button "Alt Gr", it seems I'm not able to push this
>> combination.
>>
>> Any suggestions for another way to auto-indent?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Kenneth
>
> C-M-\ runs the command indent-region (check it by typing C-h k C-M-\).
> So bind that command to another shortcut. For example, to bind it to C-c i
> put the following line in your .emacs
>
> (global-set-key (kbd "C-c i") 'indent-region)


Please see also the page http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey for
how to type C-M-\.

Emacs Devel: Could we please get this information into the manual? I
think it fits under (info "(emacs) Windows Keyboard") where AltGr is
mentioned.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Sebastian Rose]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:26 PM, harven <harven@free.fr> wrote:
>> Kenneth Brun Nielsen <kenneth.brun.nielsen@googlemail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I want to auto-indent a section (actually a whole file) in Emacs.
>>>
>>> I googled, that the shortcut C-M-\ ("CTRL+ALT+backspace") does the
>>> job, but since I have a danish keyboard, where "backspace" requires me
>>> to push the META-button "Alt Gr", it seems I'm not able to push this
>>> combination.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions for another way to auto-indent?


C-x h M-x indent-region RET

I have bound `indent-region' to <f5>.


>>> Best regards,
>>> Kenneth
>>
>> C-M-\ runs the command indent-region (check it by typing C-h k C-M-\).
>> So bind that command to another shortcut. For example, to bind it to C-c i
>> put the following line in your .emacs
>>
>> (global-set-key (kbd "C-c i") 'indent-region)
>
>
> Please see also the page http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey for
> how to type C-M-\.


All those commands are unusable anyway for they're to difficult to type.
But four of those come with easier to type alternatives, which are not
mentioned there. Why?

C-M-@     =>   C-M-SPC
C-@       =>   C-SPC
C-x C-@   =>   C-x C-SPC
C-x r C-@ =>   C-x r SPC


Only backslash commands might be problem. They are not on none of my
(German) keyboards. I guess it's a problem of the underlying system
(Windows I guess). How about filing a bug report there?

Those commands are:

  `indent-region' has to be rebound (<f5> here).
  `set-input-method'
  `abort-recursive-edit'




I think http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey is obsolete and should
be fixed.



  Sebastian

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> All those commands are unusable anyway for they're to difficult to type.
> But four of those come with easier to type alternatives, which are not
> mentioned there. Why?
>
> C-M-@     =>   C-M-SPC
> C-@       =>   C-SPC
> C-x C-@   =>   C-x C-SPC
> C-x r C-@ =>   C-x r SPC


That is a good observation.


> Only backslash commands might be problem. They are not on none of my
> (German) keyboards. I guess it's a problem of the underlying system
> (Windows I guess). How about filing a bug report there?


Please do.


> I think http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey is obsolete and should
> be fixed.


Please help rewriting the page.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Lennart Borgman
<lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey is obsolete and should
>> be fixed.
>
>
> Please help rewriting the page.

Since no one answered I am doing that right now.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Lennart Borgman
<lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Lennart Borgman
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey is obsolete and should
>>> be fixed.
>>
>>
>> Please help rewriting the page.
>
> Since no one answered I am doing that right now.


I have rewritten the wiki page. There are now also a summary of
problematic key bindings (which I think should be fixed).

Comments and critique is (almost) welcome.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Sebastian Rose]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Lennart Borgman
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey is obsolete and should
>>> be fixed.
>>
>>
>> Please help rewriting the page.
>
> Since no one answered I am doing that right now.


Sorry, I was into something else.

I saw you added more of these `impossible-to-type' keys. I've thought of
switching the keyboard layout to neo2 already :-)

Thank's for the update.

  Sebastian

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

  > Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
  > 
  > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:26 PM, harven <harven@free.fr> wrote:
  > >> Kenneth Brun Nielsen <kenneth.brun.nielsen@googlemail.com> writes:
  > >>
  > >>> I want to auto-indent a section (actually a whole file) in Emacs.
  > >>>
  > >>> I googled, that the shortcut C-M-\ ("CTRL+ALT+backspace") does the
  > >>> job, but since I have a danish keyboard, where "backspace" requires me
  > >>> to push the META-button "Alt Gr", it seems I'm not able to push this
  > >>> combination.
  > >>>
  > >>> Any suggestions for another way to auto-indent?
  > 
  > 
  > C-x h M-x indent-region RET
  > 
  > I have bound `indent-region' to <f5>.
  > 
  > 
  > >>> Best regards,
  > >>> Kenneth
  > >>
  > >> C-M-\ runs the command indent-region (check it by typing C-h k C-M-\).
  > >> So bind that command to another shortcut. For example, to bind it to C-c i
  > >> put the following line in your .emacs
  > >>
  > >> (global-set-key (kbd "C-c i") 'indent-region)
  > >
  > >
  > > Please see also the page http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey for
  > > how to type C-M-\.
  > 
  > 
  > All those commands are unusable anyway for they're to difficult to type.
  > But four of those come with easier to type alternatives, which are not
  > mentioned there. Why?
  > 
  > C-M-@     =>   C-M-SPC
  > C-@       =>   C-SPC
  > C-x C-@   =>   C-x C-SPC
  > C-x r C-@ =>   C-x r SPC
  > 
  > 
  > Only backslash commands might be problem. They are not on none of my
  > (German) keyboards. I guess it's a problem of the underlying system
  > (Windows I guess). How about filing a bug report there?
  > 
  > Those commands are:
  > 
  >   `indent-region' has to be rebound (<f5> here).

Why? 
TAB does `indent-region' just fine

  >   `set-input-method'
  >   `abort-recursive-edit'
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I think http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey is obsolete and should
  > be fixed.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >   Sebastian

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Davis Herring]

> Why?
> TAB does `indent-region' just fine

Only with Transient Mark Mode.

Davis

-- 
This product is sold by volume, not by mass.  If it appears too dense or
too sparse, it is because mass-energy conversion has occurred during
shipping.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Dan Nicolaescu]

"Davis Herring" <herring@lanl.gov> writes:

  > > Why?
  > > TAB does `indent-region' just fine
  > 
  > Only with Transient Mark Mode.

i.e. by default.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Davis Herring]

>   > > Why?
>   > > TAB does `indent-region' just fine
>   >
>   > Only with Transient Mark Mode.
>
> i.e. by default.

Well, either `indent-region' is important enough, even in the presence of
TAB/TMM, to get a keybinding (currently C-M-\), in which case it's
worthwhile to consider whether certain keyboards have difficulty
generating that event, or it's not, in which case we can just get rid of
the keybinding altogether now that TMM is the default and have one more
available for user customization (for those users on whose keyboards it is
a convenient chord).  Saying "it's a bad keybinding but we really don't
want it anyway" strikes me as nonsensical.

Davis

-- 
This product is sold by volume, not by mass.  If it appears too dense or
too sparse, it is because mass-energy conversion has occurred during
shipping.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Davis Herring <herring@lanl.gov> wrote:
>
> Well, either `indent-region' is important enough, even in the presence of
> TAB/TMM, to get a keybinding (currently C-M-\), in which case it's
> worthwhile to consider whether certain keyboards have difficulty
> generating that event, or it's not, in which case we can just get rid of
> the keybinding altogether now that TMM is the default and have one more
> available for user customization (for those users on whose keyboards it is
> a convenient chord).  Saying "it's a bad keybinding but we really don't
> want it anyway" strikes me as nonsensical.


I agree. Let us get rid of C-M-\.

And I think we should get rid of the other troublesome keybindings
too, see http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AltGrKey where I have listed
those now.

If some of them are important (and I think some of them are) they
should get new key bindings.

Re: auto-indent in emacs

[Dan Nicolaescu]

"Davis Herring" <herring@lanl.gov> writes:

  > >   > > Why?
  > >   > > TAB does `indent-region' just fine
  > >   >
  > >   > Only with Transient Mark Mode.
  > >
  > > i.e. by default.
  > 
  > Well, either `indent-region' is important enough, even in the presence of
  > TAB/TMM, to get a keybinding (currently C-M-\), in which case it's

C-M-\ was there before t-m-m was the default.
t-m-m by default just made the binding not as useful as it used to be by
default, but people might still be using it.

TAB is a simple solution, it works by default.
We cannot provide generic solutions for all non-default options.


  > worthwhile to consider whether certain keyboards have difficulty
  > generating that event, or it's not, in which case we can just get rid of
  > the keybinding altogether now that TMM is the default and have one more
  > available for user customization (for those users on whose keyboards it is
  > a convenient chord).  Saying "it's a bad keybinding but we really don't
  > want it anyway" strikes me as nonsensical.

I have not said or implied anything of the sort.