From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs for new users Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:56:27 +0100 Message-ID: References: <912155b0911230837i48326730m82e0d54d4004be59@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259002842 19589 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2009 19:00:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:00:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Per_Starb=C3=A4ck?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 23 20:00:34 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NCe9G-0006jD-1k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:00:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43430 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCe9F-0001SE-54 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:00:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCe5p-0007iG-O9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:56:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCe5k-0007f5-I3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:56:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53097 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCe5k-0007ez-Db for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:56:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.211.172]:59041) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NCe5j-0006mT-N3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:56:51 -0500 Original-Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so5854232ywh.27 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:56:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+zX6o/JJffu6iv7RtzuWzdevb0DGcuuizNY4kf8JijA=; b=HdjRAfdxc6dUd/ZwD/M2QDv59UHXSsDvIUFUflE7Q43ZU8A3JY2RXV+/qaYrY71th9 y4iFcsEF82SPpvkVgBYiyRH2rTs1KBQ2W5dPw0IZXJmwb/A4v/qJHJEAw8rjYmyz5Hw3 A081+1zbwCSzc1DwP3txG+awFsPFNZTMyJ5X4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=TScO4ew6BXrl8hdOrSXIsuRN+xFFS72vi8fej7vj5cvHV0xj58DeFKsMalPzDIJ2il 6Ifj1u9ipj6QoWf9ow8fxa0RsbeOyIFao1bo4BqPOmZToGJeNWEKVbIRrNo9FwnsCUxy wWpauvDu/pCrliK1JTlsbMKVK+rB69BLr4Id4= Original-Received: by 10.101.143.10 with SMTP id v10mr3933298ann.170.1259002607474; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:56:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <912155b0911230837i48326730m82e0d54d4004be59@mail.gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117608 Archived-At: On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Per Starb=C3=A4ck wrote: > > Maybe I should ask my students about what they have found particularly > confusing. Some things I've noticed > off the top of my head: > > * beeping is often disturbing and unexpected, in particular for > scrolling past the beginning or end of the > =C2=A0buffer with the scroll wheel. (I agree. That's hardly an error.) > * the frame/window terminology (of course) > * I have a hard time getting them to use *one* emacs instead of > starting several when they are editing several files. Emacs manual and tutorial is not very good to point out emacs client. I think that should be changed. > =C2=A0One reason is they want them in different frames. Probably > find-file-other-frame should be in the menus. > * "M-" (for a short while) > * They are interrupting things by doing stuff with the mouse. Like > clicking somewhere in the middle of a query-replace. Maybe that is one of those things that should be turned off by default in Emacs? (Ie the possibility to leave minibuffer by just clicking somewhere.) > I want Emacs to be seen as the best choice for anyone wanting to use > an editor, not just knowledgeable hackers. > I would have loved it if the effort in writing gedit had been spent in > improving Emacs for new users instead for > example, so that Emacs would be the default Gnome editor, and it > disturbs me that many GNU/Linux distributions > don't include Emacs by default. I think most agree with me in this, > but that some instead see Emacs as "not for > everyone"? It is quite strange to not include Emacs. On the other hand it points to how important it is too make it easy to start using Emacs. I think we should have to move to adhere better to existing GUI standards (CUA for example, but that is a hot potato).