From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar thumbs Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 16:32:35 +0100 Message-ID: References: <03A2EC54153A4BB1AAE5AF2D2E2B7264@editkapc> <87aaz3jgkp.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4AF1D60C.6080005@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257435288 17007 80.91.229.12 (5 Nov 2009 15:34:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Miles Bader , =?UTF-8?Q?Jan_Dj=C3=A4rv?= , Stefan Monnier , joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: grischka Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 05 16:34:40 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N64MB-0007oh-7i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:34:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60415 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N64MA-0005gm-92 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:34:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N64Kc-0004lc-D7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:33:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N64KX-0004jS-Hz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:33:01 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41307 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N64KX-0004jL-9x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:32:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f191.google.com ([209.85.210.191]:41429) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N64KV-0007md-Hl; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:32:55 -0500 Original-Received: by yxe29 with SMTP id 29so96641yxe.14 for ; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:32:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fwhwk4LTZHKb3uArM0NHMeAjBuSK1bIHHnjZVpgO9JI=; b=kUXUGo9MDgL4jWmRoWqeRNCNEffEWlBn19VlLfFwUIna6vbbVXtiiEyW2QhcPKsXEL ZMK8VBLmvHWAmhYdYKXpOdZeZnUPNn4mCFdzEagtGXFFp1pLneNc2vKcP5pSClPeKtHV D1tv9PtQdsYKnx7VJZevhm6DvQ2x+vgnnzxPA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=R4AkGz/chK8DzQuD7kX6jNwR2AicLcZPE57CprKZm0i84k96rfwJ5d8vakcv+1EAFs w7ovmcnoh4xQOACoMyF32d8G6GaySLe4GKDkNV1XR54Ib/r0fXDITfkWgV4UNpMLznDg edTQv9H0wf/XKV6rNXJY5P7PI+vSWLJ976F68= Original-Received: by 10.101.179.5 with SMTP id g5mr574671anp.89.1257435175103; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:32:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:116660 Archived-At: On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 4:16 PM, grischka wrote: >> In any case, given how widespread the problem is, it's clear that we >> can't expect the toolkit to adapt to Emacs. =C2=A0And since nobody has f= ound >> a way yet to make Emacs DTRT, all we can do is provide various >> workarounds, which is what we've done until now. =C2=A0But what I sugges= t is >> that instead of each toolkit backend providing its own workaround, we >> should implement the workarounds in the generic code and even implement >> several of them and let the user choose which one suits him best. >> >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stefan > > I guess it is a good idea. If you want to get rid of stuff, throw it all = in > one place, first. > > Seen that nowadays the gui-dyslexics tend to become a more rare species a= nd > the generation simply tends to loose the ability to understand that a > non-linear, moreover non-contiguous and even non-complementary geometrica= l > relation between scrollbar and scrollable content can be anything else th= an > an accumulation of design flaws. Maybe the gui-dyslexics are getting fewer, but did not Stefan in the discussion from some years ago point to that the gui part is broken due to the incapability of some of the scroll bar api:s?