From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Infrastructural complexity. Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:30:24 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <0C244EB2B99349238E281268B0339C72@us.oracle.com> <20090716200959.GA4298@muc.de> <87vdlstkg4.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87skgwb9na.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <0D1151E2F0A649888649595E1DF5AE60@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247783444 5951 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2009 22:30:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , Alan Mackenzie , Chong Yidong , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 17 00:30:37 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MRZTH-0006tu-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:30:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57927 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MRZTH-0000fT-0U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MRZTD-0000fO-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MRZT8-0000aC-V4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41375 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MRZT8-0000a0-OY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f217.google.com ([209.85.220.217]:43423) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MRZT8-0006qy-AG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:26 -0400 Original-Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17so491496fxm.42 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:30:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=yZFfOGoatv35jmX82/WNrMit75hcksyH82mj5anj0ak=; b=jw6lCwOxoLTecmIOZy3sRlh9wZC3FNhLYI4+DHoyWstuJVkFBpdGxR3PR7KFqhbP+Y Lyrj+S38PL0RAarhfFibAz9FqVe/VmfOe35MSUcX/wwjIadW49wk0t07XhQfKhxlB0UJ fR3yiUXVtl2tBMyeLOPhadRrxCEQdpqCUklGg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Ws7Z7pieCdKr7pX9SavI8LgTV+Nu6jBJrmCMoH0QnW0ue6EyAXKwQqvuzDFHiSIlTS GYkboUyAFfel7YrUjx0CKe46lGJHim7U2glp6I9dj6GxIcrm0ZxilQ0ehNVeQWZ7nF1i LMy+6gHWI2evPCiaVb35yiTc19rUtKbxTV5Lc= Original-Received: by 10.223.109.148 with SMTP id j20mr54716fap.43.1247783424930; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:30:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0D1151E2F0A649888649595E1DF5AE60@us.oracle.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112571 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Drew Adams wrote: >> >> >> Because messages missing by the user is a real problem in Emacs. >> >> >> Most modern IDEs has no such problem since they have a special >> >> >> `Log' tab/window. =C2=A0We are gearing towards IDE so our efforts >> >> >> will count for this goal. >> >> > >> >> > I'm not sure this argument is valid, since one can set up a >> >> > dedicated *Messages* window in Emacs, if desired. >> >> >> >> Why does that help? Don't we need the protected window feature that >> >> will (hopefully) be included (for ECB)? >> >> There is no "protected windows" yet, but ... It is windows that >> are not affected by window commands that deletes windows, >> like C-x 1, C-x 0. > > OK, so let's forget about ECB for the moment. You are saying, I guess, th= at > unless we can protect the *Messages* window from being deleted, what Yido= ng > suggested won't help (or it won't be sufficient). Is that it? What I wanted to say is that "dedicated window" does not help that much for this problem. However a "protected window" help (if you want to keep it open on the same frame). > If so, why not? I don't see why the window needs to be protected from del= etion. > Can you give a concrete example of the problem? > > FWIW - I show *Messages* in its own frame, in a dedicated window. It tail= s > itself naturally (assuming point is at eob). I can leave *Messages* showi= ng or I > can delete its frame/window, if I want. Nothing else will delete or displ= ace it > behind my back. I can easily adjust the frame/window height to change the= "tail" > size. What more is needed? What is the problem here that what I'm already= doing > doesn't solve? Yes, that works, it is how I usually do it too.