From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:59:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: <6161f3180905270548t3012bc1ah161719ae01db0fb5@mail.gmail.com> <87prdpky0x.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <18979.1249.47148.538392@rgr.rgrjr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243850418 12262 80.91.229.12 (1 Jun 2009 10:00:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:00:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Bob Rogers , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 01 12:00:15 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MB4JM-0006Cn-PF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:00:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53456 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MB4JM-00008L-Ay for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:00:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MB4JF-00007q-AK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:00:01 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MB4JA-00006y-Pj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:00:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=50667 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MB4JA-00006v-HS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:59:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f161.google.com ([209.85.218.161]:55497) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MB4J8-0001VW-RU; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:59:55 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so8162680bwz.42 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:59:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=oFRkIgPqdSB4pOsgZt6NwmFSUtdfzpAA3cdBDnp04i0=; b=Ear0gF0e7t719utBJVPnsrF6Ao+4ZzuHymjakN2k4GJNHd1BtDDyysiTp23Z8r3K6H XZC6VP2Y457Vmt/Sso4RLKJuN9WEDgkgJUI2kiPMmVVF8BATsmdp6ccfQ9hnDIqEWUKE awRDjXEB/nqr0w7fCdihLp2femf5/zcZ8i2F4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=G1QFnDC6QkBkrbWvNs5/52n/qqSy2vZ2/da9bgaoJUcampNC7q22SwoFicVdO8+h24 Ouzw4o9i6zn5/IP6C9+YwfWzwb2P5R+0R8R8Q/ictQ+fh8c/IcyXmAvMZOxS025W3ZwI f57CVm3cv8NsG1BDWc1C8Q0/4g8Ds79kMyT6s= Original-Received: by 10.239.164.83 with SMTP id s19mr409041hbd.110.1243850393578; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:59:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111242 Archived-At: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Miles Bader wrote: >>> Having them be "similar but subtly different" horribly confuses an >>> otherwise straight-forward association. >> >> I do not think that is true for something that you use as often as those= keys. > > I suppose an experienced user, like me, who uses both often[*], might be > so accustomed to the differences that they would internalize them. =C2=A0= Then > they'd probably simply be _annoyed_ by the arbitrary differences, rather > than confused by them. Is not what you feel here more of a choice? ;-) > However my reply was talking about newbies. =C2=A0An emacs newbie, > tentatively exploring the use of C-p/C-n instead of arrow-keys wouldn't > have that experience. =C2=A0It seems pretty likely to me that they _would= _ > get confused (and annoyed of course) by such seemingly arbitrary > differences and that this might discourage them. Confusion is not generally annoying. It can also lead to curiosness. Otherwise people would not be playing games for example. (Did someone notice the n-back game?)