Autoloaded defcustoms

Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

If you add an autoload cookie to a defcustom

  ;;;###autoload
  (defcustom ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab nil

and use get-file-autoloads on this then you get a load def

  (defvar ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab nil "\
  bla bla doc")

  (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)

This does not take care of :set etc in the defcustom AFAICS. Shouldn't
it do that? (Is this the reason that minor modes defined in libraries
external to Emacs are not turned on properly?)

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Stefan Monnier]

> If you add an autoload cookie to a defcustom
>   ;;;###autoload
>   (defcustom ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab nil

> and use get-file-autoloads on this then you get a load def

>   (defvar ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab nil "\
>   bla bla doc")

>   (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)

> This does not take care of :set etc in the defcustom AFAICS. Shouldn't
> it do that?

It should and AFAIK it does.  But your notion of "take care of" might be
different from mine.  So please be more specific.

> (Is this the reason that minor modes defined in libraries
> external to Emacs are not turned on properly?)

I don't know what you're referring to.


        Stefan

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> If you add an autoload cookie to a defcustom
>>   ;;;###autoload
>>   (defcustom ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab nil
>
>> and use get-file-autoloads on this then you get a load def
>
>>   (defvar ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab nil "\
>>   bla bla doc")
>
>>   (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)
>
>> This does not take care of :set etc in the defcustom AFAICS. Shouldn't
>> it do that?
>
> It should and AFAIK it does.  But your notion of "take care of" might be
> different from mine.  So please be more specific.

If the load def above is run after custom-set-variables then the
custom-set part of the defcustom symbol is not run since
custom-autoload does not do that.

I suggest using something like this instead of custom-autoload

(defun nxhtml-custom-autoload (symbol load &optional noset)
  (custom-autoload symbol load noset)
  (let* ((standard (get symbol 'standard-value))
         (saved (get symbol 'saved-value))
         (need-set (get symbol 'custom-set)))
    (when (or need-set
              (equal standard saved))
      (custom-load-symbol symbol))))

But I am not sure about the details.

Jurij, could you please help with the details? What is necessary to do
in the function above?

>> (Is this the reason that minor modes defined in libraries
>> external to Emacs are not turned on properly?)
>
> I don't know what you're referring to.

Global minor modes have a custom-set symbol property that should be
run when setting the minor mode through custom.

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Juri Linkov]

> I suggest using something like this instead of custom-autoload
>
> (defun nxhtml-custom-autoload (symbol load &optional noset)
>   (custom-autoload symbol load noset)
>   (let* ((standard (get symbol 'standard-value))
>          (saved (get symbol 'saved-value))
>          (need-set (get symbol 'custom-set)))
>     (when (or need-set
>               (equal standard saved))
>       (custom-load-symbol symbol))))
>
> But I am not sure about the details.
>
> Jurij, could you please help with the details? What is necessary to do
> in the function above?

Couldn't you just set `noset' to t to force its loading?

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:57 AM, Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> wrote:
>> I suggest using something like this instead of custom-autoload
>>
>> (defun nxhtml-custom-autoload (symbol load &optional noset)
>>   (custom-autoload symbol load noset)
>>   (let* ((standard (get symbol 'standard-value))
>>          (saved (get symbol 'saved-value))
>>          (need-set (get symbol 'custom-set)))
>>     (when (or need-set
>>               (equal standard saved))
>>       (custom-load-symbol symbol))))
>>
>> But I am not sure about the details.
>>
>> Jurij, could you please help with the details? What is necessary to do
>> in the function above?
>
> Couldn't you just set `noset' to t to force its loading?


I am not sure what `noset' does. How could it help here? The sequence
of events here is

    (custom-set-variables ...)
    ... Maybe later during startup
    ... load the load defs for the defcustoms with a custom-set property ...

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)

> If the load def above is run after custom-set-variables then the
> custom-set part of the defcustom symbol is not run since
> custom-autoload does not do that.

After the above custom-autoload, if custom-set-variables sets this var,
it should cause "ourcomments-util" to be loaded, so that the
proper :setter is used.  At least that's what the 3rd argument (nil) is
supposed to do.


        Stefan

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:20 AM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>>> (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)
>
>> If the load def above is run after custom-set-variables then the
>> custom-set part of the defcustom symbol is not run since
>> custom-autoload does not do that.
>
> After the above custom-autoload, if custom-set-variables sets this var,
> it should cause "ourcomments-util" to be loaded, so that the
> proper :setter is used.  At least that's what the 3rd argument (nil) is
> supposed to do.

Yes, but the situation I am talking about is that custom-set-variables
have been run before custom-autoload (see my prev message).

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Stefan Monnier]

>>>>> (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)
>> 
>>> If the load def above is run after custom-set-variables then the
>>> custom-set part of the defcustom symbol is not run since
>>> custom-autoload does not do that.
>> 
>> After the above custom-autoload, if custom-set-variables sets this var,
>> it should cause "ourcomments-util" to be loaded, so that the
>> proper :setter is used.  At least that's what the 3rd argument (nil) is
>> supposed to do.

> Yes, but the situation I am talking about is that custom-set-variables
> have been run before custom-autoload (see my prev message).

That would be a pilot error.


        Stefan

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> (custom-autoload 'ourcomments-ido-ctrl-tab "ourcomments-util" nil)
>>>
>>>> If the load def above is run after custom-set-variables then the
>>>> custom-set part of the defcustom symbol is not run since
>>>> custom-autoload does not do that.
>>>
>>> After the above custom-autoload, if custom-set-variables sets this var,
>>> it should cause "ourcomments-util" to be loaded, so that the
>>> proper :setter is used.  At least that's what the 3rd argument (nil) is
>>> supposed to do.
>
>> Yes, but the situation I am talking about is that custom-set-variables
>> have been run before custom-autoload (see my prev message).
>
> That would be a pilot error.


Yes, but who is the pilot ...?

Or, why not take care of this problem? I have no problem giving more
concrete examples why this can be needed, but do I have to do that?

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Juri Linkov]

>>> Yes, but the situation I am talking about is that custom-set-variables
>>> have been run before custom-autoload (see my prev message).
>>
>> That would be a pilot error.
>
> Yes, but who is the pilot ...?

Catch-22 :-)

> Or, why not take care of this problem? I have no problem giving more
> concrete examples why this can be needed, but do I have to do that?

Why do you need to run custom-set-variables before custom-autoload?

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> wrote:
>>>> Yes, but the situation I am talking about is that custom-set-variables
>>>> have been run before custom-autoload (see my prev message).
>>>
>>> That would be a pilot error.
>>
>> Yes, but who is the pilot ...?
>
> Catch-22 :-)
>
>> Or, why not take care of this problem? I have no problem giving more
>> concrete examples why this can be needed, but do I have to do that?
>
> Why do you need to run custom-set-variables before custom-autoload?

This could be during startup of Emacs. There is nothing that says
custom-set-variables should be the last thing there. (And default.el
is run afterwards.)

Another situation could be if you are trying out a package. Doing that
might require that you run a file with its load defs. You may
customize some variables in that package. The next time you start
Emacs and try this package again those customized variables will be in
a mixed state. You can for example get global minor mode whose value
is t, but that does not work. The people will start complaining that
the package does not work.

I have seen this happen. Is there any reason not to handle the problem
the way I suggested?

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Chetan Pandya]

--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Yes, but the situation I am talking about is that custom-set-variables
> >>>> have been run before custom-autoload (see my prev message).
> >>>
> >>> That would be a pilot error.
> >>
> >> Yes, but who is the pilot ...?
> >
> > Catch-22 :-)
> >
> >> Or, why not take care of this problem? I have no problem giving more
> >> concrete examples why this can be needed, but do I have to do that?
> >
> > Why do you need to run custom-set-variables before custom-autoload?
> 
> This could be during startup of Emacs. There is nothing that says
> custom-set-variables should be the last thing there. (And default.el
> is run afterwards.)
> 
> Another situation could be if you are trying out a package. Doing that
> might require that you run a file with its load defs. You may
> customize some variables in that package. The next time you start
> Emacs and try this package again those customized variables
> will be in a mixed state. You can for example get global minor mode
> whose value is t, but that does not work. The people will start
> complaining that the package does not work.
> 
> I have seen this happen. Is there any reason not to handle the problem
> the way I suggested?

It looks like when custom-set-variables is written out the load dependency is not part of it. Is there anything else besides that?

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Chetan Pandya <pandyacus@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> It looks like when custom-set-variables is written out the load dependency is not part of it. Is there anything else besides that?

Yes, the order of things. As I said above if custom-set-variables is
run before the load defs then things will not work.

Re: Autoloaded defcustoms

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Why do you need to run custom-set-variables before custom-autoload?
> This could be during startup of Emacs. There is nothing that says
> custom-set-variables should be the last thing there. (And default.el
> is run afterwards.)

autoloads go in site-start.el and/or at the beginning of the .emacs.
Otherwise, anything in the .emacs that relies on these autoloads will fail.

> I have seen this happen. Is there any reason not to handle the problem
> the way I suggested?

I think your suggestion was a bit succint.  Could you explain what would
be the result of your change?


        Stefan