Left chinese double quote character?

Left chinese double quote character?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

When editing a buffer with text from gmail left double quotation mark is
 shown as a box and it is either Chinese, Korean or Japanese. Is that
correct?


        character: “ (8220, #o20034, #x201c)
preferred charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane
(U+0000..U+FFFF))
       code point: 0x201C
           syntax: . 	which means: punctuation
         category: c:Chinese h:Korean j:Japanese
      buffer code: #xE2 #x80 #x9C
        file code: #xE2 #x80 #x9C (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
          display: no font available

Character code properties: customize what to show
  name: LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
  general-category: Pi (Punctuation, Initial quote)
  old-name: DOUBLE TURNED COMMA QUOTATION MARK

[back]

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:07, Lennart Borgman (gmail)
<lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:

> When editing a buffer with text from gmail left double quotation mark is
>  shown as a box and it is either Chinese, Korean or Japanese. Is that
> correct?

Whether it is shown as a box or with the appropriate glyph depends on
the fonts installed.

As for the Chinese, Korean, Japanese category, yes, it is correct (or,
at least, it is not a bug). Look for "categories" in the list
archives. There was some discussion about that issue back in july.

             Juanma

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Juanma Barranquero wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:07, Lennart Borgman (gmail)
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> When editing a buffer with text from gmail left double quotation mark is
>>  shown as a box and it is either Chinese, Korean or Japanese. Is that
>> correct?
> 
> Whether it is shown as a box or with the appropriate glyph depends on
> the fonts installed.

I am using the default font for Emacs on w32. That common characters are
not available in this font is a bit unfortunate. Is there something we
can do about this?

> As for the Chinese, Korean, Japanese category, yes, it is correct (or,
> at least, it is not a bug). Look for "categories" in the list
> archives. There was some discussion about that issue back in july.

Thanks, I remember that vaugely. It just looks a bit strange and
together with the hollow box it looks even more strange.

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:22, Lennart Borgman (gmail)
<lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am using the default font for Emacs on w32. That common characters are
> not available in this font is a bit unfortunate. Is there something we
> can do about this?

Unless you have some leverage against Microsoft, I doubt it.

  Juanma

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Juanma Barranquero wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:22, Lennart Borgman (gmail)
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I am using the default font for Emacs on w32. That common characters are
>> not available in this font is a bit unfortunate. Is there something we
>> can do about this?
> 
> Unless you have some leverage against Microsoft, I doubt it.


I don't think they like me very much ;-)

It looks like some Courier New font is used. What other fixed with fonts
are there normally on w32?

Cmd console windows on windows xp pro also mentions Lucida Console (tt).
Does that have the same problem (ie no left dbl quote char)?

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 19:49, Lennart Borgman (gmail)
<lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:

> It looks like some Courier New font is used.

Yes, of course.

> What other fixed with fonts
> are there normally on w32?

I don't know. Take a look at the Fonts folder.

> Cmd console windows on windows xp pro also mentions Lucida Console (tt).
> Does that have the same problem (ie no left dbl quote char)?

You can see a font's glyph repertoire with charmap.exe.

  Juanma

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Lennart Borgman]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 19:49, Lennart Borgman (gmail)
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It looks like some Courier New font is used.
>
> Yes, of course.
>
>> What other fixed with fonts
>> are there normally on w32?
>
> I don't know. Take a look at the Fonts folder.
>
>> Cmd console windows on windows xp pro also mentions Lucida Console (tt).
>> Does that have the same problem (ie no left dbl quote char)?
>
> You can see a font's glyph repertoire with charmap.exe.

Thanks, I did not know.

I took a look at Courier New there and 8220 is shown there. Why is it
not shown by Emacs then?

>  Juanma
>

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 00:08, Lennart Borgman
<lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I took a look at Courier New there and 8220 is shown there. Why is it
> not shown by Emacs then?

You'll have to get a font log and ask Kenichi.

In my Emacs, using DejaVu Sans Mono, U+201C is shown in that font, but
if I default to Courier New, U+201C is shown in Arial Unicode MS.

  Juanma

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Lennart Borgman]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 00:08, Lennart Borgman
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I took a look at Courier New there and 8220 is shown there. Why is it
>> not shown by Emacs then?
>
> You'll have to get a font log and ask Kenichi.

What is a font log and how do I get it?

> In my Emacs, using DejaVu Sans Mono, U+201C is shown in that font, but
> if I default to Courier New, U+201C is shown in Arial Unicode MS.
>
>  Juanma
>

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <e01d8a50810221740k38719934r7ed5b3d4418d02e5@mail.gmail.com>, "Lennart Borgman" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> What is a font log and how do I get it?

Just after starting Emacs, do this:

ESC : (setq font-log nil) RET
ESC : (insert #x201c) RET
M-x font-show-log RET

and show the contents of *Help* buffer.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Lennart Borgman]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 2:51 AM, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> wrote:
> In article <e01d8a50810221740k38719934r7ed5b3d4418d02e5@mail.gmail.com>, "Lennart Borgman" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> What is a font log and how do I get it?
>
> Just after starting Emacs, do this:
>
> ESC : (setq font-log nil) RET
> ESC : (insert #x201c) RET
> M-x font-show-log RET
>
> and show the contents of *Help* buffer.

Thanks. I get an error on the last line:

   Wrong type argument: characterp, arabic

If I before the commands above do (setq debug-on-error t) I get a trace back:

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument characterp arabic)
  display-supports-face-attributes-p((:slant italic) #<frame
emacs@LENNART-69DE564 0x383de00>)
  face-spec-set-match-display(((supports :slant italic)) #<frame
emacs@LENNART-69DE564 0x383de00>)
  face-spec-choose((((...) :inherit italic)) #<frame
emacs@LENNART-69DE564 0x383de00>)
  face-spec-set-2(help-argument-name #<frame emacs@LENNART-69DE564
0x383de00> (((...) :inherit italic)))
  custom-declare-face(help-argument-name (((...) :inherit italic))
"Face to highlight argument names in *Help* buffers." :group help)
  require(help-fns)
  execute-extended-command(nil)
  call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil)

The display is frozen (except for the echo area), but I can still copy
the text even though I can't see it when I have switched to another
program.

It seems like there are many things that are wrong. If I just switch
to another app and back before I type the commands I get another
result. And when I tried to just get the version Emacs crashed.

In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2008-10-09
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping'

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <e01d8a50810221820k69479f37qe833883b25336890@mail.gmail.com>, "Lennart Borgman" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> > ESC : (setq font-log nil) RET
> > ESC : (insert #x201c) RET
> > M-x font-show-log RET
> >
> > and show the contents of *Help* buffer.

> Thanks. I get an error on the last line:

>    Wrong type argument: characterp, arabic

I've just installed a fix.  Please try again.

By the way, Jason, what is the reason of putting a list of
scripts in :script property of font entities?  The intention
of this property (sorry for not yet documented) is to
request a font supporting a specific script in font-spec,
and thus the value is a script symbol, and the entities
satisfying that request have just a copy of that property.

If it is necessary for Windows to remember a list of
supported scripts in a font-entity, isn't it possible to
have it in the different property; e.g. :supported-scripts.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[jasonr]

Quoting Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org>:

> By the way, Jason, what is the reason of putting a list of
> scripts in :script property of font entities?

The list of supported Unicode subranges is available when listing the fonts
installed on the system, but there seems no documented way to get the list for
an opened font, short of listing matching fonts again (which is very slow) or
manually decoding the truetype font data. So I had to carry this information
with the font entity, and using the same property name as is used to query it
seemed like a good idea at the time.

But I think the original problem here is caused by the fact that this character
lies in the vast "symbol" range, for which Emacs requires the font have
characters for U+201C, U+2300 and U+2500. Most Windows fonts have glyphs for
U+201C, since it is part of the WGL4 character set, and the box drawing glyphs
are commonly included for DOS compatibility, but U+2300 does not have such wide
support (but appears in etc/HELLO, so I can understand why we would want to
choose a font that contains it if possible).

Re: Left chinese double quote character?

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <1224740050.49000cd2ccc37@webmail.freedom2surf.net>, jasonr@f2s.com writes:

> Quoting Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org>:
> > By the way, Jason, what is the reason of putting a list of
> > scripts in :script property of font entities?

> The list of supported Unicode subranges is available when listing the fonts
> installed on the system, but there seems no documented way to get the list for
> an opened font, short of listing matching fonts again (which is very slow) or
> manually decoding the truetype font data. So I had to carry this information
> with the font entity, and using the same property name as is used to query it
> seemed like a good idea at the time.

I see.  Ok, I'll document it, and handle a script list
properly in the other place too.

> But I think the original problem here is caused by the
> fact that this character lies in the vast "symbol" range,
> for which Emacs requires the font have characters for
> U+201C, U+2300 and U+2500.

But, script-representative-chars was changed to contain this
entry:
	(symbol . [#x201C #x2200 #x2500])
which means that a font must support at most one of those
characters is supported.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

RE: Left chinese double quote character?

[Drew Adams]

> > Just after starting Emacs, do this:
> >
> > ESC : (setq font-log nil) RET
> > ESC : (insert #x201c) RET
> > M-x font-show-log RET
> >
> > and show the contents of *Help* buffer.
> 
> Thanks. I get an error on the last line:
> 
>    Wrong type argument: characterp, arabic
...


FWIW, I get the same behavior, for this build:

In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2008-10-03 on LENNART-69DE564
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include
-fno-crossjumping'