From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: ndame Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:38:32 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: ndame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="120262"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 18:39:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jS1MN-000VCD-Em for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:39:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44312 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS1MM-0004al-BX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:39:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53488) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS1Le-00042N-8m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:38:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS1Ld-0005XK-2o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:38:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.132]:51892) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS1Lc-00053W-A1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:38:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1587746317; bh=fRDNJLi7ehr8bzyH4VSTGmlt1YM/zy5sP9JBUiGjw9I=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:From; b=ku6Yg+fWhIaJwxMMweY15fKdsHgsz28/iSIM5mfQcht19rjy/07efIdSMka+xd6Uy X0iZJ0NP9qwh2VGZ6Aa1EzdnIAPRLdy7Hkko6XuvWfbTEmow3KX5nd0WpHFyZQK09v 30Tvlg3BKguuL3OM6aYmdT2B9ef0ygwOqP4rrrPk= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.132; envelope-from=ndame@protonmail.com; helo=mail-40132.protonmail.ch X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/24 12:38:37 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 185.70.40.132 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247712 Archived-At: >=C2=A0Maybe some improvements to the welcome screen. A better tutorial (wh= ich showcases advanced features, not just the "alien" part of Emacs) and/or= some guides. If the cursor keys work out of the box then the tutorial should begin with features which can be used without learning new cursor keys, demonstrating something which emacs does well or better than other tools. Is there such a thing? Or does learning emacs mostly pay off for the advanced user? I can't think of a feature right know where emacs shines for the casual user. C-v and stuff are advanced topics IMO which pay off mostly in the long run, not at the beginning, they could be shown in an advanced section of the tutorial later. And for keybindings there is no real need to switch to emacs, because, for example, vscode can also have emacs keys: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=3Dtuttieee.emacs-mcx So some feature should be found which can be shown for the casual user at t= he beginning of the tutorial which may convince the user that emacs is worth the effort. IMO=C2=A0 starting with C-v, etc. keys just puts off must users who casuall= y try emacs.