From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 07:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <> <<87o8ls1vvq.fsf@posteo.net>> <<20200926145302.sjrwjrguf5ialc25@Ergus>> <<3201a9fe-de19-d553-0be1-d379f182fd47@yandex.ru>> <> <<84273aa2-24a9-7584-18b9-03a5ac783d62@yandex.ru>> <> <> <> <> <<835z7vjrg3.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83tuvegkmo.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83v9ftf6n9.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<835z7qfp6h.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<87ft6lgw5y.fsf_-_@gnus.org>> <<1F8F3522-1E6C-40A3-B61A-B9B84FC0AD18@gnu.org>> <> <<83k0vw5091.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31622"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 11 16:46:57 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRccj-00087C-GU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:46:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44636 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRcci-0006Sy-F2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:46:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59624) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRcbi-000606-TH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:44418) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRcbg-000130-NF; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09BEj439016800; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:45:50 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=rxzM5rPbXIcp6xGegGAhjbxR84NXGnW8gROd+ka9Xk8=; b=Y6uHdZAC3vqnbDbntToJxzEC7hhHSfjtnOjJtkSy1R0R7Q/qGb597rgZV8oaVfXZc/kP +NSTQO4e8QgiSMFRUy8ik58c5dU8Cd/ZqfTWhlXxTCiKNrGois8QU8I0rdORvn08ZhmO BWPfXS1OZ0xxIrWM/zw86Wxzyu6KgGMXDLlfAHtYo5Dmcu+cXs9mxsskHsgj9n5nVCGu 4YvhEWrcZCnQeOHIZyi5LU7GtiptobiCjN3SYOIjbxDrdM3CDHOBTqmgeIPVf95M313d zZJb/HHWYlfxwVpx9w6kkAVhMIB0SE6KG/mI2QEgzEzsDqHMYpq+0hRQ5VnObOViNEuk uw== Original-Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343pajgynu-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:45:50 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09BEjNMB028614; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:45:49 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343pqnmc1e-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:45:49 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 09BEjkmG013643; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:45:47 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83k0vw5091.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9771 signatures=668681 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=18 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010110140 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9771 signatures=668681 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=18 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010110140 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.79; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/11 10:45:51 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257369 Archived-At: > > > We cannot just switch to variable-pitch font and leave the rest > > > unchanged. > > > Using a variable-pitch font will cause an annoying horizontal movemen= t of > > > the mode-line stuff when some parts change. > > > > Never bothered me even a tiny bit. >=20 > So I guess you won't be sending bug reports about it. But someone > else would, and the measures to avoid that up front are so easy I > don't see why we are arguing. My 2 cents about this - 1. I don't think we should use `align-to' etc., at all. That would be even more disruptive, e.g., it might interfere with user mode-line customizations. Whereas it's easy for a user to add, change, or remove attributes of face `mode-line', it's not so easy for a user to try to second-guess or make adjustments for whatever you might do wrt ensuring alignment. 2. Having tried Lars's suggestion, I find the effect good overall. 3. Should it really be on by default? Dunno. Typically to make something like this the default we'd have lots of people already using it by their own customizations. Though the mode-line is not easy to customize in general, it's trivial to change its face. Do we have lots of users who use a variable-pitch font for it now? I'm going to start using this, myself. Dunno whether I'll stick with it, but so far it seems good. How bothersome it might be for some parts of the line content to move left or right is personal, I think. Personally, I'm not bothered by it. And the mode-line parts don't have to be aligned with anything else in Emacs, AFAIK.