From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Why change the advertised bindings of Isearch commands? Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:33:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<98f8a71f-1f10-4ff6-a4c1-8dc2d179b84b@default>> <<87ziy05p3g.fsf@mail.linkov.net>> <<1a6f342a-3e59-4555-a345-e518cc598299@default>> <<83egfbub4q.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448616880 8638 80.91.229.3 (27 Nov 2015 09:34:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:34:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 10:34:25 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a2FQ0-0003hY-7Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 10:34:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55518 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2FQ2-0002vw-P1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:34:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36952) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2FP5-00014w-Qu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:33:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2FP4-0007xL-Rv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:33:19 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:30727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2FP0-0007uF-SD; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:33:14 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tAR9XCYh031933 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:33:13 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tAR9XBB7021666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:33:12 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tAR9XBnB005883; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:33:11 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83egfbub4q.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:195363 Archived-At: > > > 1. C-h c M-e - M-e runs the command forward-sentence > > > 2. C-h c M-c - M-c runs the command capitalize-word > > > 3. C-h c M-r - M-r runs the command move-to-window-line-top-bottom > > > > > > IOW, those are keys that are more useful to exit Isearch and do > > > what they do normally, thus advertising the new bindings will help > > > to get rid of old bindings in later releases. > > > > I disagree that we should remove those keys from the realm of > > Isearch just because they have global bindings. There are many, > > many keys that you can use to exit Isearch. And different users > > use different such keys to exit. And different users care to > > have different keys exit and act immediately. > > The issue is not how to exit Isearch. The issue is how to go > forward one sentence or capitalize a word while in Isearch. Read what I said, please. No one said that the "issue" is "how to exit". It's about changing the default behavior to make these keys "exit and act immediately". Using M-c to exit and capitalize means removing it as a key that does something useful _in_ Isearch. And the particular thing M-c does now, which we would be losing it for, is a common Isearch action: toggle case-fold. Likewise for the other keys. > What you are saying is that a user who spots a word to be > capitalized during Isearch needs to do at least 2 things: > exit Isearch with some key, then type M-c. Exactly as it has always been: `RET M-c'. And not "at least 2 things". Exactly 2 things: exit & act. If you want to do something outside of Isearch you quit Isearch and do it. Nothing new here. What you are saying is that a user who wants to toggle case-fold should need to do 2 things: `M-s c'. You might say, "Six of one; half a dozen of the other." Except that one is the longstanding default, and was done for Isearch. The other is one person's preference (so far). The question (which IMO should have been raised, instead of just implementing a change) is which is more useful for most users of Isearch, most of the time. So far, no reason for this change in defaults (for 3 keys) was even given. AFAIK, it ain't broke; no need to fix it. Why change the default behavior for these particular keys now? And without any discussion or polling of users? As I said, "different users care to have different keys exit and act immediately". It is trivial for a user to make M-c exit and act immediately. The default behavior makes sense to me. I don't see a crying need to reduce `RET M-c' to M-c and make users use `M-s c' to toggle case sensitivity. But let's hear some arguments in favor of the changes, please.