From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 08:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <874kn2sdss.fsf@iki.fi> <20201011103235.GA28425@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31474"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Adrien Brochard , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jean Louis , Teemu Likonen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 11 17:16:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRd4r-0007z0-Jt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/11 11:15:12 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257371 Archived-At: > If survey is published, for example on Reddit, such survey is narrow > and specific to Reddit users, and would represent only that > communication channel. >=20 > My proposal on how to publish a survey is to include that in the Help > menu, and let people do it straight from Emacs. That is similar to bug > reporting, but it is not a bug, it is feature request. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Something like: > Tell us how we can improve? > in the Help menu, would lead to description as how RMS said, and from > there on, users would submit the email with their descriptions, likes, > hates, whatever they wish to say. >=20 > It could go straight to specific mailing list. I agree that the `Help' menu could/should have an item for something like this. Actually, we already have this functionality, which is submitting free-form feedback of any kind. We call it an enhancement request, and we tell users to use `M-x report-emacs-bug' for it. This is not as well known as it should be, IMO. It would be good for the `Help' menu to have an item that explicitly calls this `Suggest Improvements' or similar. It would be bound to `report-emacs-bug'. ___ I think that corresponds to what you are suggesting. However, providing individual feedback to the "bug" list, as helpful as it might be, inviting a thread of discussion by interested parties, including some Emacs core developers, does not also involve or encourage any broader discussion/communication. That might be OK, and in fact that aspect hasn't yet been raised in this current thread. So far, we've discussed only submitting a survey, getting results, and analyzing/discussing them here, on emacs-devel. So as far as that goes, I think this suggestion from Jean-Louis does fit the bill. Well, it doesn't constitute a "survey", but it does correspond to what RMS, I, and Jean-Louis have emphasized here: getting users to say, in their own words, what they want and what they do. I've said this before (dunno whether I've proposed a separate `Help' menu item). We should make `report-emacs-bug' better known as a recommended way to submit ANY feedback about Emacs. The command name can mislead wrt this role. A separate `Help' menu item would help (even though redundant with item `Send Bug Report'). Or change that item to `Send Feedback or Bug Report'. It might also make sense, for discoverability etc., to add a `send-feedback' alias for `send-bug-report'.