From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Delete variables obsolete since Emacs 23 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <20200515175844.18941.61355@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20200515175845.997EC20999@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20083fc0-59ca-444b-b18d-69e2f79d8c57@default> <14113880-109b-4315-8970-1100b248bd30@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39132"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 16 07:31:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7BG9-000A5j-Oi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/16 01:30:32 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -63 X-Spam_score: -6.4 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253836 Archived-At: > ISTR that we declared interactive-p obsolete because it is an not a > correct solution to the problem it is meant to solve. Then neither is (called-interactively-p 'interactive). Goose ... gander. > The correct solution is to give the function an optional argument > and an interactive spec which provides a non-nil value for that argument > in interactive calls. I already do that where it makes sense (e.g. to show a message). And that lesson is given in the doc string of `called-interactively-p' (which is _not_ obsolete, let alone being removed). > There are cases where that gives the right answer, > while interactive-p gives the wrong answer. `called-interactively-p' is just as brittle as `interactive-p' - see its doc string. The main difference is for keyboard-macro use - (called-interactively-p 'any) versus (called-interactively-p 'interactive). > The point is, you really should change each of those functions > so that it will not misbehave in those special situations. My code is backward-compatible, and there's too much of it to want to change to (if (fboundp 'called-interactively-p) (called-interactively-p 'interactive) (interactive-p)) I have no objection to Emacs having declared `interactive-p' obsolete (well, I kinda do, but not much, and it's not important at all). I object to Emacs _removing_ it. I see no reason for that. And no one has given a reason, so far. Everything said against `interactive-p' so far is true also of (called-interactively-p 'interactive). Emacs allows the latter - it's not obsolete. Emacs should continue to allow (interactive-p), which is _identical_. As far as I'm concerned, Emacs can feel free to continue to call `interactive-p' names. Shout from the rooftops that it's awful, evil, stupid, obsolete, whatever. Doesn't bother me. What bothers me is removing it. Sticks & stones... I didn't complain about the other removals being made, BTW. I didn't complain that `buffer-menu-mode-hook' was deprecated in favor of the same with capital `B', or that the former is now being removed. Likewise, for deprecating (and now removing) `print-help-return-message' in favor of `help-print-return-message'. Lots of obsolete things are being removed now, with no complaint from me, although I had to make code adjustments. `interactive-p' is used much more than the others. (Mea culpa: I said I had 2500 occurrences of `interactive-p'. I actually have 406 occurrences. A first grep included extraneous test files etc.) Nothing is gained by removing `interactive-p'. No one has been able to point out any gain. Only pain, no gain.