From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MON KEY Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: inter-client cut/copy paste & Small Caps Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1237920940 15634 80.91.229.12 (24 Mar 2009 18:55:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:55:40 +0000 (UTC) To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 24 19:56:58 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LmBnu-0008Jk-Ds for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:56:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37381 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LmBmX-0000wC-7Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:55:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LmBj5-0000O4-QO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:51:52 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LmBj0-0000MF-2q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:51:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48924 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LmBiz-0000M4-2l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:51:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gx0-f161.google.com ([209.85.217.161]:44692) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LmBiw-0005jm-FG; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:51:42 -0400 Original-Received: by gxk5 with SMTP id 5so6195440gxk.18 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.150.225.17 with SMTP id x17mr15431606ybg.223.1237920701839; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 06ac8302c17c7213 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:109804 Archived-At: > I'm guessing that you are copy/pasting Rich Text or some such. Probably, but I tested the behavior last night at home with an Emacs-pretest 23.91 build and got similar results. > Emacs does not yet support these clipboard formats, it only supports (on > Windows) CF_UNICODETEXT, CF_TEXT, and CF_OEMTEXT clipboard data > types. So what you get is the unformatted text variant of the > clipboard contents. The only available Unicode characters explicitly labeled `Small Caps' are those of the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) - Unicode Phonetic Extensions is block (1D00 - 1D7F). See; (URL `http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D00.pdf'). This is problematic because: a) IPA is a phonetic notation - it doesn't *require* the rest of the Latin Characters. b) It is unlikely that this particular block will be extended to accommodate `Small Caps' as it would create ambiguities counter to the original intent of the IPA block. c) Handling of RTF from the clipboard isn't the only issue/complication her= e. Following is the generated source from the wikipedia entry on Small Caps - (URL `http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Caps'): ;;

;; [edit] In ;; CSS

Small caps can be specified in CSS using "font-variant: ;; small-caps;". For example, the HTML

<span style=3D"font-variant: ;; small-caps;">Jane Doe</span>

renders ;; as

Jane ;; Doe.

Since the CSS styles the text, readers are still ;; able to copy the normally-capitalized plain text from the web page.

;;

[edit] In ;; CSS

Small caps can be specified in CSS using "font-variant: ;; small-caps;". For example, the HTML

;;
<span style=3D"font-variant: small-caps;">Jane ;; Doe</span>

renders as

Jane Doe.

Since= the ;; CSS styles the text, readers are still able to copy the ;; normally-capitalized plain text from the web page.

How does Emacs accommodate a reasonably consistent and appropriate rendered display of the CSS "span style-font-variant: small-caps;" in the above example? In this particular case I don't see an RTF/M$ transliteration issue but an Emacs' opportunity to DTRT (Display The wRong Thing=E2=84=A2). Ignoring WYSIWYG editors (and their clipboard handling) this doesn't change that utilization of Small Caps on the web is quite prevalent - in many use cases the Small Caps convey syntax. Simply discarding this information is prob. not the best way to promote vigorous utilization of 'The One True Editor'. It is worth noting that Emacs handles APL char data from the clipboard in a reasonable way. Is one to assume that the relatively infrequently encountered APL syntax is considered too significant to discard but it is OK for Small Caps to be lossy? Proposed explicit default UTF-8 Small-Caps substitutes: Fullwidth Latin Letters - Halfwidth and Fullwidth Forms (FF00-FFEF) Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols - Mathematical Sans-Serif Capitals - (1D5A0-1D5B9) s_P On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:08:55 -0400 >> From: MON KEY >> >> Can anyone confirm if inter-client copy paste will correctly >> yank/insert Small Caps strings into an Emacs buffer from the >> clipboard. Is this even possible? On emacsw32 when I yank in Small >> Caps'd text from the clibboard I'm getting the text, but without the >> caps properties. Other w32 clients are correctly `interpreting' the >> SmallCaps text and I'm unable to achieve reasonable translation on >> emacs-w32. > > I'm guessing that you are copy/pasting Rich Text or some such. Emacs > does not yet support these clipboard formats, it only supports (on > Windows) CF_UNICODETEXT, CF_TEXT, and CF_OEMTEXT clipboard data > types. So what you get is the unformatted text variant of the > clipboard contents.