From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: << <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83o9d5q1bi.fsf@gnu.org> >> <<<83tvmxo3iy.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83muspo12f.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536593513 995 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 15:31:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:31:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 17:31:48 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzOAG-00009o-N9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:31:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52283 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzOCN-0000aN-5A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:33:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37581) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzOBq-000050-Hq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzO4d-0001NK-73 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:26:00 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:37784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzO4Y-0001KW-JW; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:25:54 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w8AFOLel196502; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:25:51 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=OrBJ8KkZ5zn7CmE8mZ2NKI9QA/kZLHCDiwig0payNfo=; b=WAWWCtevc309JISFWg7iGF+lb4mb9wHYXfs2exh45Vvyyjev8NqBp20PQfQZr8jEkyWJ 3CkWJNSzhjNuT5IdqK5gzwlF+XmY2bExO+N70K//3u8HRF64m/VLMmQAm3pE9Ie9zYil aZebBSXIhTLBIGi1DMzTxupFxSZwKYJ/Hk/sAa5zkCBv3n9VJ1A8E+rLjrXp1Ylseh/R I/kKOyot3w0HFWNR0n/UI7yznovkNKrXi3i4r51CI8nThtodJwQYIPbdgu+IK5n2ioqe aIB+kRRWbmPpg8B9Bi5yiPKNDCnaASJ7WYUxtu7AgsPc9fUBVF09WPZ60kb1EShUpl4N aA== Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2mc72qepqe-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:25:51 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w8AFPoc9024274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:25:50 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w8AFPnp0006520; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:25:49 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83muspo12f.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9012 signatures=668708 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809100155 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.85 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229642 Archived-At: > > > And, btw, I find nothing wring with this habit of mine, the only > > > problem here is that someone decided that "C-x C-x" should activate > > > the region. > > > > Yes. `transient-mark-mode' does it. > > > > Consider a replacement for `C-x C-x' that does not activate > > the region. >=20 > If you mean for everybody (i.e. by default), then I'd welcome patches > to that effect, and maybe that would be a first step towards making > delete-selection-mode on by default without annoying veteran Emacs > users who are fast typist. I meant that it might help for Emacs to provide such things. I think that we should have decoupled point-mark swapping from region activation from the beginning, but we should also have provided a command that combines them (instead of only the latter, as `C-x C-x'). Personally, I'd like to see both d-s-m turned on by default and `C-x C-x' bound to a command that does what it does now (activates and swaps). But users should be able to choose: (1) not to use d-s-m, (2) to swap point and mark without activating the region. If d-s-m is not on by default, then the question is whether to change the default behavior of `C-x C-x'. I don't have an opinion about that, but maybe we shouldn't change it at this point. If we don't turn on d-s-m then it should be enough to provide the decoupling. But if long-time users who dislike d-s-m don't actually take advantage of the decoupling then that might not really ease the way toward a possible future enabling of d-s-m by default. > If you mean for my own use, then it should be clear to you that my own > problems with this were solved long ago by my customizations. All > this thread is not about my usability problem, it's about everyone > else. Right; this discussion not particularly about your use or my use.