From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 16:48:51 +0300 Message-ID: References: <42c93165-2d85-8501-9cc8-99830b7b3646@gmail.com> <83k21s99w9.fsf@gnu.org> <6124e640-4179-c647-9926-38a496646fca@gmail.com> <8360dc95sr.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503669016 13829 195.159.176.226 (25 Aug 2017 13:50:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 13:50:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 Cc: radon.neon@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 25 15:50:11 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dlEzs-0002tu-NY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 15:50:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53435 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlEzw-0007l6-DG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47705) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlEys-0007im-O4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:49:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlEyn-0005hB-SA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]:37406) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlEyn-0005gQ-L3; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:48:57 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id o188so10031895lff.4; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 06:48:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=knItwi2a9RIwdo8cwRpwjhr176ebOUOPw1xqpHwsXV4=; b=YTS7G+rZozB5DqWhcey76zLpCqrZ3rhCKX2HZZHk6UmPyFV9nyIxb31dtE5PeOkRui M6z6nKN/1ZNg0ed6IAOLuMuuUMclIZMkx9+yYRuMab63IlpSUNN7wABNg+9DInPTimm3 c/BjJfL8PzY4U5EXdZqnvcNp5mwo7g+zNKnPS10z9JSWcvPuWU/GLik8o9vPVE+uZmTg ziO6Z7r+CW9znlJdiHuaMaeo7KKX4VMnkH+wEmf2LzhhrEI0xPdnxQjmhx9iGq9UQlhH IQDbOv45y4ORiiEBdQKp48Ykd06ZdVNy6xCo8aZElOM1dLTWo1aQEvqGbMX08KFdsquu QY6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=knItwi2a9RIwdo8cwRpwjhr176ebOUOPw1xqpHwsXV4=; b=ub7FgnBZBzbS2IKH0HAW7fP1gMlY1saQ5xT2C94GRq7Nd+0laIBHdNQ8B2pdZDCtEh sqoZlPpOifQfXk52kJbxK4NrNn+7AfhDMyizfIh/HdSpV5holwNr15iUFbbPVrsk43c5 8pIJxtf5UAWdWCCyTU9i1AIFpFCQeX8m9U3f9DGmNYiHFxRJkaLVlzdVICDRmzJOiHPH G5e4qP3gbtg4qm+Dw1pgg8tZjBRoQ/LnjWtt9DkiplkWURGHtk+okLgMp6qH26cIhxNO BcIa+83gzXFCVJ0Og4gURDObyW+EYPOKOe4Q9mjdbJb/mJiwwXeu6MHBxDiOMzMTzRPO c1dA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gY/bDOS1x1lKKpbSNqoPi+7ToD+KLlTWXFOMDZ2np1EsQyqzB9 g2sNmSl0Nbe6xvM0dyo= X-Received: by 10.25.76.3 with SMTP id z3mr4572893lfa.27.1503668935940; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 06:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.199.6] (broadband-95-84-209-126.moscow.rt.ru. [95.84.209.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i87sm671535lfk.80.2017.08.25.06.48.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Aug 2017 06:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev In-Reply-To: <8360dc95sr.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217812 Archived-At: > That could be not what the user wants, I think > The user would expect to > get an error, since he doesn't expect the package to be loaded at all. I don't think we should try to do too much here. We're aiming at exactly one possible packaging problem faced by the new users. You just installed Emacs, learned of a cool mode, try to require it and BAM. Then you get the message about adding package-initalize and that's it. Multiple criteria already described in this thread would prevent such warning to be shown to experienced users in 99% of cases and when it shows the user would immediately know that it's a real problem with his init and time to kill that session. P. S. Maybe we should cobble something out of doctor-mode and disabled commands, give it an avatar of some office tool, call nanny-mode and enable by default. ;-) -- Best Regards, Nikolay Kudryavtsev