From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org schemas we talked to be non-free, was: [ELPA] New package: repology.el Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:55:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83zh0y2jtu.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8hd2gzl.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6sv1yj2.fsf@gnu.org> <7240fd2c-729f-4685-fbc9-90f8c5e0af6d@yandex.ru> <837dnz1xsx.fsf@gnu.org> <7b39e854-a553-9d72-3f8c-2c0ec1b64285@yandex.ru> <834kj31wyy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3178"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: rms@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, ulm@gentoo.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 26 23:56:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l4XGC-0000iR-A1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 23:56:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35884 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4XGB-0001PQ-Bg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 17:56:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43932) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4XFW-0000t2-7o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 17:55:50 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]:42165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4XFU-0005qG-Cp; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 17:55:50 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id r12so25340165ejb.9; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 14:55:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EU33Xjg4BhwzHDY/jiRKRRdPxGv+WLFEAB9tySF2xAU=; b=hiO/7ERYL4thp4ksKc7KKxryV904+B1Aw8LeKsF2WuDJHNYjbcKPcsHWNZnjDnuR8B qjqSwOPJzphjNgdcXCCe099NTJONHG7jSK6UhRhny5k4sPn6SYS7EtKB+pno/0WeAqfa HStOAjnPUODxk9Oqb1e8sogjGwSAvHTbaUUuy/jY7mf1J2Q40TN7OSRjLo8NA/bAVPtZ O7AgBHQdRVtoLEPjmR2YSgDVudQfoyy4B5T1KTcES32wa0HRPRdkyjWnQuacCh9bAgGy CtZIoozm1wqmmk5Pb1oZhtc45EezA7IFT0PNZWRj2qP71ZWU0D1GjlDmAOdX9FOHsLBB f7CQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EU33Xjg4BhwzHDY/jiRKRRdPxGv+WLFEAB9tySF2xAU=; b=D9U5P5wQVu0nVVIU+CfqS0lbI0lkzWAs41bM1e7S9ZNNkFocn97tc3Qt3pt8B/W8GU yPzVEDoh0BWAvahV/XZ9vhI+7AEtSi9snLhO7HHmtp5bAnaQGGpENRbaiaJHqzmPdKmP rWZAikEWzKWDkdZ8bVUfA9MzvtgfmY6hr3vB5DQxwrv0a3sIIbG77EzXbEwBi1USurr7 exholMCCXxYZqZWxxnXqO7S4wjs2GiDO0B3lyL7xRrB4tf4Lx1jiwGhRbzJrDozXPtGR oLRzUGL1ijrVBApGIfnmCy+WHuJB+C0G40yIaUiHl3ntCR0AWhFqB/DD9x4vbsJbVumr ACGA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5305LT2hKXSrUVQmyhNqRuF6IsaURfKgqLtrQ4DpO/NLNCHicMfQ wRwuzZaEvNPZzpdB4G5qWURtd24KcP8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNHKAj05baF7rA4+ljTCXSOellCAL3f43Y0EtQxOr2T6r1KXGi2wAsCGVPjPBfltm+0ukOpQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a113:: with SMTP id t19mr4806596ejy.253.1611701745449; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 14:55:45 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id v25sm39279ejw.21.2021.01.26.14.55.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 26 Jan 2021 14:55:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <834kj31wyy.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62b; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263485 Archived-At: On 26.01.2021 18:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>>> There are several methods available for that, but the simplest one is >>>>> to define new elements using the ones defined in the original schema. >>>> Wouldn't that make it a derivative work? >>> I don't know. What if it does? >> The original schema's license can impose restrictions on that. > Does it, though? The OASIS schemas we're talking about have a license blurb that starts with "All right reserved", and then only mentiones permissions to do derivative works "that comment on or otherwise explain it or assist in its implementation", which doesn't seem to cover derivative schemas for, say, experimentation. Of course, many cases could be covered by Fair Use, and even those that don't, the likelihood of being sued is vanishingly low, and the main goal of theirs seems to be to avoid being misrepresented by others (e.g. by removing the authorship or keeping it but changing the contents somehow maliciously), but as a matter of license, permission for arbitrary derivative works seems absent. IANAL, consult your lawyer, etc. > And if it does, how useful is such a schema? Just as a way to describe a certain fixed format, I guess? The wording of their rules seems pretty bureaucratic. It seems you need to join OASIS (or work in a company that is part of it) to safely contribute to any new version of the format. Which is disappointing. Again, IANAL, and perhaps there are some better explanations in their policy somewhere on the website. I just could find them so far.